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Thread: Officiating

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    After half of the arena was yelling it at them. Did the refs not eventually get it right with Manu?
    The score keeper added points late, but the refs didn't know what to do. The only reason they stopped to discuss it was that same reason, everyone was yelling at them. They counted it as a 2, but eventually went to review it at the following break.

  2. #167
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    The Ref Situation

    Every day somebody is coming out and harshly criticizing the refs. The refs have lost control of the games it seems and the league has lost control of the refs. We the fans have noticed this for years. The superstar calls, the rule changes in crunch time or playoffs, home team favoritism, etc. We've seen it all.

    Does Silver need to step in?

    How do they fix this problem?

    Are the players over-blowing it?

    Is it just a perception issue and there is no problem with the refs?

    I have long thought that reffing in the NBA was a problem and the worst of the 4 major sports. Even the way the NBA handles replays is Mickey Mouse. They pick up a computer monitor and turn it around at mid court, it looks so unprofessional compared to how every other league handles it.

  3. #168
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    I agree the public criticisms are out of control and I expect privately that Silver has plans to address it. Everything he has done so far has been proactive so I imagine it's very much on his radar

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120A using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Every day somebody is coming out and harshly criticizing the refs. The refs have lost control of the games it seems and the league has lost control of the refs. We the fans have noticed this for years. The superstar calls, the rule changes in crunch time or playoffs, home team favoritism, etc. We've seen it all.

    Does Silver need to step in?

    How do they fix this problem?

    Are the players over-blowing it?

    Is it just a perception issue and there is no problem with the refs?

    I have long thought that reffing in the NBA was a problem and the worst of the 4 major sports. Even the way the NBA handles replays is Mickey Mouse. They pick up a computer monitor and turn it around at mid court, it looks so unprofessional compared to how every other league handles it.
    I think a big part of it is that the home announcer teams are employed by the teams they are calling and then tend to slant their coverage to the home team and against the refs. There are a huge number of calls not made each way in every game I've seen.

    The changes in the playoffs in officiating has always bugged me. Why should the game suddenly change? That said a 7 game series IS a very different game than the regular season even if the officiating didn't change.

    Silver has talked about some changes, but most of the changes have been PR changes and not actual changes.

    Things that are fairly simple that should be done:

    1. I think they need to start with adding a 4th ref so more calls are made, calls are more consistent, and so each ref has a shorter distance to move from play to play and the angles of viewing the plays increase.

    2. Give each coach 2 challenges that cost them a timeout but so the refs can get it right.

    3. Make the toothless flopping rule not toothless. Have the review process be based on player/fan complaints. Make them count as technical fouls. Expand the system to include arm locks so that arm locks found in review result in technical fouls. Keep in mind each technical costs a player money, and the 16th one costs a 1 game suspension and a game check.

    4. Stop calling a foul on the defender when the offensive player creates the contact. Make it mostly a no call and on the more egregious ones make it an offensive foul.

    5. Review should be done remotely in NY and the call can just be transmitted directly to the refs. No need to the on-floor conference.

    6. There should be ref teams rather than have them mix and match so much, it would have them travel less and hopefully help them work together better. There should also be more refs employed. There are around 65 refs, when they add a 4th ref per game that needs to go to 90 ... they should probably bump that up to 120 or so so they can travel less and work fewer games. Working fewer games should help make them somewhat more consistent.

    7. The top rated teams should work the national games and should officiate more games of the top teams.

    8. There should be more turnover in the refs employed by the NBA. The bottom 10% should be replaced every year.

    9. The bad rules need to be fixed. The illegal screen rules are poorly written and officiated. The travel rules are similarly complicated and poorly officiated. Simplify the rules and make the players adhere to them.

    Most of what I want is the officiating to be consistent. Start by each crew being consistent from the start of each game to the end of that game (I hate it when the way the game is being called changes during the game). Next have each crew call the game consistent game to game. Then lets get all of the crews calling the game the same. Then lets get every call correct.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I think a big part of it is that the home announcer teams are employed by the teams they are calling and then tend to slant their coverage to the home team and against the refs. There are a huge number of calls not made each way in every game I've seen.

    The changes in the playoffs in officiating has always bugged me. Why should the game suddenly change? That said a 7 game series IS a very different game than the regular season even if the officiating didn't change.

    Silver has talked about some changes, but most of the changes have been PR changes and not actual changes.

    Things that are fairly simple that should be done:

    1. I think they need to start with adding a 4th ref so more calls are made, calls are more consistent, and so each ref has a shorter distance to move from play to play and the angles of viewing the plays increase.

    2. Give each coach 2 challenges that cost them a timeout but so the refs can get it right.

    3. Make the toothless flopping rule not toothless. Have the review process be based on player/fan complaints. Make them count as technical fouls. Expand the system to include arm locks so that arm locks found in review result in technical fouls. Keep in mind each technical costs a player money, and the 16th one costs a 1 game suspension and a game check.

    4. Stop calling a foul on the defender when the offensive player creates the contact. Make it mostly a no call and on the more egregious ones make it an offensive foul.

    5. Review should be done remotely in NY and the call can just be transmitted directly to the refs. No need to the on-floor conference.

    6. There should be ref teams rather than have them mix and match so much, it would have them travel less and hopefully help them work together better. There should also be more refs employed. There are around 65 refs, when they add a 4th ref per game that needs to go to 90 ... they should probably bump that up to 120 or so so they can travel less and work fewer games. Working fewer games should help make them somewhat more consistent.

    7. The top rated teams should work the national games and should officiate more games of the top teams.

    8. There should be more turnover in the refs employed by the NBA. The bottom 10% should be replaced every year.

    9. The bad rules need to be fixed. The illegal screen rules are poorly written and officiated. The travel rules are similarly complicated and poorly officiated. Simplify the rules and make the players adhere to them.

    Most of what I want is the officiating to be consistent. Start by each crew being consistent from the start of each game to the end of that game (I hate it when the way the game is being called changes during the game). Next have each crew call the game consistent game to game. Then lets get all of the crews calling the game the same. Then lets get every call correct.
    I'm with all of that but the refs have their own union, don't they? I doubt they'd want to ref less games because they'd (I'd assume) make less money. And if they add an extra 30 refs (wish I'm totally on board with), who's paying? The fans, I'm guessing.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    I'm with all of that but the refs have their own union, don't they? I doubt they'd want to ref less games because they'd (I'd assume) make less money. And if they add an extra 30 refs (wish I'm totally on board with), who's paying? The fans, I'm guessing.
    The fans always end up paying eventually ... but the league and the players union should split it.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The fans always end up paying eventually ... but the league and the players union should split it.
    Maybe throw on another sponser's logo on the jerseys.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Maybe throw on another sponser's logo on the jerseys.
    An additional 50 refs is pocket change for the NBA/union. No need to go hunting money.

    50 new refs will be around $5M total. They can take that straight from the PR budget for the league.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  9. #174
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    But would they? And this would admit that they're falling behind (which they obviously are).

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    But would they? And this would admit that they're falling behind (which they obviously are).
    If Silver tells them to? Sure.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  11. #176
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    better than last year. Still can't stand the reputation calls.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly Guy View Post
    better than last year. Still can't stand the reputation calls.
    The "reputation calls" come from film review and are a legit tactic to the officials not being able to see everything. Andre Iguodala has earned a reputation for being able to swipe down on the ball and not foul. Early on he was called for that foul automatically because the refs see the swipe and hear a slap and they call the foul ... they reviewed game after game of him doing that and saw that he wasn't actually fouling over and over. Because the refs knew he usually didn't foul they became less likely to call him on that ... to the point that Iguodala could do this to LeBron and not get the automatic whistle.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahZ2L65R0XA

    So, I want it called RIGHT ... and sometimes, with the limitations of humans, reputation is going to help get it right.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The "reputation calls" come from film review and are a legit tactic to the officials not being able to see everything. Andre Iguodala has earned a reputation for being able to swipe down on the ball and not foul. Early on he was called for that foul automatically because the refs see the swipe and hear a slap and they call the foul ... they reviewed game after game of him doing that and saw that he wasn't actually fouling over and over. Because the refs knew he usually didn't foul they became less likely to call him on that ... to the point that Iguodala could do this to LeBron and not get the automatic whistle.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahZ2L65R0XA

    So, I want it called RIGHT ... and sometimes, with the limitations of humans, reputation is going to help get it right.
    Yeah, refs should look at scouting reports for the players they're about to ref, and look for points of focus. That's smart reffing, cuz every player plays the game differently, and that means you're gonna have to look at different points of a player's game where the rules need to be decided upon and called. But don't give automatic calls. That's just BS, and a cop out. And that happens WAY too much in the NBA.

  14. #179
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    Bledsoe got a flagrant one on a olnyk flop. **** you nba.

  15. #180
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    Only watched final 8 mins but Dereck Stafford totally blew the end of the Knicks griz game tonight.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

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