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  1. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So I don't think it's a very accurate measure of who or who is not a system QB.
    Of course not. Taking a single-metric threshold to determine who is a system QB is dumb. But we're talking about Lionel here.

  2. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So under that criteria, who qualifies as a system QB? Does Drew Brees?
    Yes.

    You don't see an immediate difference between Brees in San Diego vs. Brees in New Orleans under Sean Payton?

    Check my post #766

  3. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by QB_Eagles View Post
    If anybody wonders why 57%, in 2016 according to https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/s...ir-yards/2016/

    Russell Wilson 57.9%
    Dak Prescott 58.2%
    No, I didn't go with sportingcharts, I went NexGen... https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/p...ompleted-yards

    They have a stat called CAY. If you take the CAY from each players Yds/Comp you get a Air Yards percentage. If you go back to my post#733 in this thread my excel file list the 2017 AY%. The 57% is an average from the Air Yard% of 2017, which sportingcharts is yet to post.

    So again, you dudes are jumping to conclusions and bodying yourselves smh

  4. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Lol, of course. Of course by his metric that means Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers were system QBs, whereas Jameis Winston was not. So I don't think it's a very accurate measure of who or who is not a system QB.

    But if we are going to use that metric, here is Russell Wilson:

    2016: 57.9%
    2015: 54.8%
    2014: 43.6%
    2013: 53.7%
    2012: 57.8%

    Which means more often than not, Russell Wilson is below the threshold.
    Again, this is not an arbitrary number. I explained in multiple post including post#815 which I believe you responded to explaining why I think a number below the league average Air Yard% qualifies a QB as a "system" QB.

    But here's something interesting, and I'm glad a user brought up sportingcharts, I don't have the time or desire to track every single QB's air yards. Thankfully, a few other sites hire people that do. The average AY% I came up with was simply a percentage average from 2017, ie. the 57%. But when I add up all the total air yards in 2016 from sportingcharts and divide them by the total passing yards listed in 2016, the league average come up to 53% instead of 57%. You seem to have a hard time following some of my explanations, so I'll keep it short and concise. The list you gave for Russell Wilson's air yard% should be compared with sportingcharts 53% league avearge. In which case, if 2012-15 follow around the same league average, Wilson would "not" be a "system" QB by my definition.


    Again, Brees/Brady/Stafford etc are the definition of "system" QB's in my opinion. The play calling and offensive system inflates their numbers.
    Last edited by Lionel20; 01-07-2018 at 11:20 PM.

  5. #830
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    I just redid all the calculations. And NexGen calculates the league average AY% = .57

    So either the league average AY% jumped 4-5% or NextGen and Sportingcharts disagree on the air yards for each player. I'm leaning on the latter, but either way you can't compare Russell Wilson's 2012-16 sportingcharts figures to the 57% from NextGen in 2017. That just doesn't make sense.

    The league averages for AY% according to sportingcharts

    2016 = 53%
    2015 = 53%
    2014 = 51%
    2013 = 52%
    2012 = 54%
    Last edited by Lionel20; 01-07-2018 at 11:29 PM.

  6. #831
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    Why is everyone still obliging this Blowhard? Anyone with 2 eyes can see that Wentz is more talented, progressed, and currently a much better QB than Dak. It was easy enough to see last year as well if anyone actually bothered to open their eyes and see the big picture. I saw it and went as far as to say Wentz was already a top 5 NFL QB before the season started while everyone was calling Wentz the 4th best QB in the division.

  7. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    Again, this is not an arbitrary number. I explained in multiple post including post#815 which I believe you responded to explaining why I think a number below the league average Air Yard% qualifies a QB as a "system" QB.

    But here's something interesting, and I'm glad a user brought up sportingcharts, I don't have the time or desire to track every single QB's air yards. Thankfully, a few other sites hire people that do. The average AY% I came up with was simply a percentage average from 2017, ie. the 57%. But when I add up all the total air yards in 2016 from sportingcharts and divide them by the total passing yards listed in 2016, the league average come up to 53% instead of 57%. You seem to have a hard time following some of my explanations, so I'll keep it short and concise. The list you gave for Russell Wilson's air yard% should be compared with sportingcharts 53% league avearge. In which case, if 2012-15 follow around the same league average, Wilson would "not" be a "system" QB by my definition.


    Again, Brees/Brady/Stafford etc are the definition of "system" QB's in my opinion. The play calling and offensive system inflates their numbers.
    I went over Stafford already and why you drawing this conclusion only shows why it becomes very clear that you don't actually watch football. also nice job ignoring my last post because you've continuously ignored what I said every time someone makes those points
    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    It's different now than it was.

    When he won the second one, Giants fans are here we're outside of their minds.
    That quote always cracks me up.

  8. #833
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    I'm gonna go over what I said about Stafford though, let's see if you elect to ignore it again.

    so throughout Staffords entire career, he has never once had a good oline, and he had a decent run game 1 year, every other year he had an awful run game.

    because of this, teams usually rush only 4 players, and drop back 6-7 because with a bad oline, they can still get pressure with 4, and the lions have no run game to worry about, so they can drop 6 or 7 back in coverage.

    this means Stafford usually has no time to let routes fully develop, and nmo team is ever going to bite on play action, meaning it's all on Stafford to make a play.

    being straight honest, only someone who has never watched a game, or someone whjo has but is a complete ****ing moron would think Stafford is a system QB.

    you understand his strength is his deep ball right?

    like the fact that you think Stafford is a system QB only tells me you don't actually watch games, and likely have VERY limited actual football IQ.
    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    It's different now than it was.

    When he won the second one, Giants fans are here we're outside of their minds.
    That quote always cracks me up.

  9. #834
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    but all this just goes back to you seeming to think that surrounding talent doesn't help a QBs numbers.

    which is completely moronic in and of itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    It's different now than it was.

    When he won the second one, Giants fans are here we're outside of their minds.
    That quote always cracks me up.

  10. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by basch152 View Post
    I'm gonna go over what I said about Stafford though, let's see if you elect to ignore it again.

    so throughout Staffords entire career, he has never once had a good oline, and he had a decent run game 1 year, every other year he had an awful run game.

    because of this, teams usually rush only 4 players, and drop back 6-7 because with a bad oline, they can still get pressure with 4, and the lions have no run game to worry about, so they can drop 6 or 7 back in coverage.

    this means Stafford usually has no time to let routes fully develop, and nmo team is ever going to bite on play action, meaning it's all on Stafford to make a play.

    being straight honest, only someone who has never watched a game, or someone whjo has but is a complete ****ing moron would think Stafford is a system QB.

    you understand his strength is his deep ball right?

    like the fact that you think Stafford is a system QB only tells me you don't actually watch games, and likely have VERY limited actual football IQ.
    You're honestly working yourself up for no reason. Guy's a blowhard that is just going to continue to say **** for the sake of saying it and you are giving him exactly what he wants.

  11. #836
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    White QBs - system QBs
    Black QBs - not system QBs

    Save yourself all the nonsensical posting and just copy paste this from here out. Saves time.

  12. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel20 View Post
    Again, this is not an arbitrary number. I explained in multiple post including post#815 which I believe you responded to explaining why I think a number below the league average Air Yard% qualifies a QB as a "system" QB.

    But here's something interesting, and I'm glad a user brought up sportingcharts, I don't have the time or desire to track every single QB's air yards. Thankfully, a few other sites hire people that do. The average AY% I came up with was simply a percentage average from 2017, ie. the 57%. But when I add up all the total air yards in 2016 from sportingcharts and divide them by the total passing yards listed in 2016, the league average come up to 53% instead of 57%. You seem to have a hard time following some of my explanations, so I'll keep it short and concise. The list you gave for Russell Wilson's air yard% should be compared with sportingcharts 53% league avearge. In which case, if 2012-15 follow around the same league average, Wilson would "not" be a "system" QB by my definition.


    Again, Brees/Brady/Stafford etc are the definition of "system" QB's in my opinion. The play calling and offensive system inflates their numbers.
    But step back from the numbers. Do you honestly think this is the case? Do you really think Tom Brady is a system QB?

    First, I'd have to ask what system you're talking about, because Tom Brady has had a number of offensive coordinators who ran vastly different systems and he's excelled in all of them.

    Second, Air Yards is a poor way to determine whether someone is a system QB because you have thus far not demonstrated any correlation between the two. A QB could be a risky thrower who doesn't check down and instead makes bad decisions to throw it deep that influences that stat.

    What evidence do you have that there is any correlation between a system QB and air yards?

  13. #838
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    I'll give Lionel some ammo..

    Only 3 quarterbacks had more pressures when dropping back then Dal.

    I didn't even know that was a stat. Lots of people put stats up against the blitz but pressures seem like a more accurate guide because it's counted as a blitz even if it doesn't get there. A team can rush 7 and even if it's blocked and the qb gets 3 seconds to throw it's still a blitz.

    I think Wentz was near the top qb rating against blitz and pressure however.

  14. #839
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    Dak is just holding down the QB position until John Stephen Jones is ready to take over.

  15. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Dak is just holding down the QB position until John Stephen Jones is ready to take over.
    Yeah what a story that would be. He's gotta grow 3 inches first..lol..dont think that's gonna happen. I'll definitely check him out in college though.

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