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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopackgo87 View Post
    Yeah no thanks on Andrews. Needs to be a big-time baller to go 14 for a TE. The basketball types Gates, Graham, etc. can be had in 3rd round and be matchup nightmares. Packers should draft a TE in say R3. This team needs to find a JerMichael Finley type. Rodgers at his best with a TE that can run seams and corners to take the top off the defense. Rodgers at his best with a good TE.
    Again, not really sure what more you're looking for in a Tight End. 6'5" and 260 lbs. Jimmy Graham is not that great. If we wanted that why even bother with a TE, just play an extra reciever. Gronk and Witten were not big basketball type players and I'd take them all day over Graham and Davis. The TE can provide so much more than just a recieving threat.

  2. #77
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    Andrews is much more of a Travis Kelce, Rob Gronkowski, Jason Witten mold than he pure recieving threat. That's part of the reason I like him.

  3. #78
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    I just don't see him as a Travis Kelce or Gronkowski type guy. When I say Olsen or Davis, I meant in that they walked in season 1 and made impacts because of their speed. 14 just seems relatively high for a TE either way. Maybe we trade back if that is the target.

  4. #79
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    I agree. I donít know the tight ends that well, but from what Iíve read, 14 seem super high for any tight end this year. And if youíre taking a guy top 15 at tight end, he either better be an absolute freak athlete or as sure of thing as you can get. Andrews seem like neither to me. Solid athlete who played in a system where he didnít run a full variety of routes. 14 is way too high for that.

  5. #80
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    Seriously...lets just remember that Olsen and Davis were legitimate first round picks. They were can't misses. And they proved it within their first several years. You can say what you want about Davis now but he was legit for a long time. That being said, we aren't in the world where a TE at #14 makes any sense and if it happens, this dude better be a 10+ TD and 1000 yd guy because ultimately we needed defense here.

  6. #81
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    Keep in mind, Davis had about as impressive of combine as youíll ever see as well. He scored in the 99th percentile in the 40, 98th percentile for vertical leap, 97th percentile for bench, 96th percentile for broad jump and 88th percentile for 20 yard shuttle (those are the only drills he ran) compared to all tight ends in the mockdraftabel database, which goes back to at least Ď06 as far as I can tell.

    You can really have a better combine performance than that to be honest.

    And Olsen as a pretty good combine as well. Short arms and smallish hands, but he had an elite 40. He didnít do great in the 20 yard shuttle and broad jump, but was about 75th percentile for the rest (vertical, 10 yard split, bench and 3 cone). So while his performance pales in comparison to davis, Olsen was still a very high level athlete.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 01-09-2018 at 08:41 AM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    Again, not really sure what more you're looking for in a Tight End. 6'5" and 260 lbs. Jimmy Graham is not that great. If we wanted that why even bother with a TE, just play an extra reciever. Gronk and Witten were not big basketball type players and I'd take them all day over Graham and Davis. The TE can provide so much more than just a recieving threat.
    Jimmy Graham on the Packers would be a beast. Jason Witten is big but goes down on shoestring tackles. Slow. If I am taking a TE at 14 he better be a freak athlete that will provide matchup issues to every defender. Don't know if Andrews is that guy.

  8. #83
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    I donít mind graham at all. However, the smarter play might be to try to find a younger graham, which I think trey burton could be. He may never put up peak graham numbers, but I think he could closer to the Seahawks version of graham.

    I think Burtonís contract may surprise people. I think heíll get a decent contract relative to his past production, but heís a decent potential guy. Heís not an all around type of guy, and heís more in the Finley mold, but as long as he can block defensive backs and beat linebackers on pass plays, he can be a good matchup tool. And itís hard to knock his blocking too much since outside of half a season of Bennett, our tight ends have not been even mediocre run blockers for awhile. So while Burton isnít a good blocker, it shouldnít be a drastic drop off from what weíve had.

  9. #84
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    I was once again impressed with Roquan Smith last night, there was no quit in his game, he has heart, a great motor, and a lot of things you can teach. I've said it before I know ILB is not the big priority, but if he is there at 14 I don't think you can pass on him. Smith and Martinez at ILB with Ryan as the #3 makes this defense that much better. If we hire Fangio I'm sure he would love that pick.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I donít mind graham at all. However, the smarter play might be to try to find a younger graham, which I think trey burton could be. He may never put up peak graham numbers, but I think he could closer to the Seahawks version of graham.

    I think Burtonís contract may surprise people. I think heíll get a decent contract relative to his past production, but heís a decent potential guy. Heís not an all around type of guy, and heís more in the Finley mold, but as long as he can block defensive backs and beat linebackers on pass plays, he can be a good matchup tool. And itís hard to knock his blocking too much since outside of half a season of Bennett, our tight ends have not been even mediocre run blockers for awhile. So while Burton isnít a good blocker, it shouldnít be a drastic drop off from what weíve had.
    I would love Graham, I think he would be a lot closer to peak Graham than Seahawk Graham, the passing offenses of the Packers and Saints are much better than Seattle. Seattle didn't utilize him as well as they could his whole time there IMO.

    If they could add a Graham and look for a third round development guy this offense looks very dangerous again.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRNMN View Post
    I would love Graham, I think he would be a lot closer to peak Graham than Seahawk Graham, the passing offenses of the Packers and Saints are much better than Seattle. Seattle didn't utilize him as well as they could his whole time there IMO.

    If they could add a Graham and look for a third round development guy this offense looks very dangerous again.
    I agree IRNMN. Smith could be available and he'd be hard to pass up. Him and Martinez inside. The bottom line is the draft is the best way to find great players that are more than a stop-gap and are cheap. The problem with Pack was not only confounded by getting mediocre players in the draft, but then not finding a quality FA and hoping House, for instance, would be a No. 2 CB.

    What I'm saying is that if you draft Smith you likely are going to have a hole at OLB and CB. Either sign or trade for a top-tier OLB or CB and draft the other in R2. This team needs about 3 OLBs. One corner like say Josh Jackson of Iowa and having him and King and Randall I think CB would be set for the top-3.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopackgo87 View Post
    I agree IRNMN. Smith could be available and he'd be hard to pass up. Him and Martinez inside. The bottom line is the draft is the best way to find great players that are more than a stop-gap and are cheap. The problem with Pack was not only confounded by getting mediocre players in the draft, but then not finding a quality FA and hoping House, for instance, would be a No. 2 CB.

    What I'm saying is that if you draft Smith you likely are going to have a hole at OLB and CB. Either sign or trade for a top-tier OLB or CB and draft the other in R2. This team needs about 3 OLBs. One corner like say Josh Jackson of Iowa and having him and King and Randall I think CB would be set for the top-3.
    Here's my thing with the corner back issue and this is what you would have to judge. Josh Jackson in my eyes is the top corner in this draft, but how wide of a gap is it between Jackson and Denzel Ward, Isaiah Oliver, Jaire Alexander, and Kameron Kelly? I would currently grade Jackson as a top 20 talent in this draft, but I would probably put Ward and Oliver in the top 30, the other 2 in the top 50. I mean I acknowledge there is a gap, but where I would say Ward and Oliver may need more work, Jackson is probably ready to go day 1. Unless Ward and Oliver have killer combines, which I would not write off, there is a good chance you get a top 50 talent in the second round. To me Smith is a top 5 talent in this draft, who likely falls because ILB rarely is taken in the top 5, he certainly doesn't make it out of the top 15. The gap there is huge in my eye because the next best ILB assuming your looking that way is Edmunds and he's just outside of the top 50 in my view. At OLB is a little different, but there is some depth there too. However, this was also the mentality that had us in this position at OLB unless by the grace of God, DeMarcus Lawrence doesn't return to DAL and want's to be a Packer I don't see any names which upgrade us significantly. They will need to adress this with round 1 or 2. There are some decent looking corners Butler, Gaines, Melvin, Davis (I think), Johnson, Robinson, Amukamara. Then again ILB is not an overwhelming need for this team either.

    I don't think Smith is there at 14 in my view so this whole dilemma is probably out the door. Moving down the board if Arden Key is there I would think thats the pick. Realistically neither Key or Smith are there. So Jackson would be a solid selection and I think he is the unquestioned top corner in this draft. He's got a good size already, and is an NFL ready talent. I would say looking at current projects it either Jackson or Ferrell at this point, but a lot changes. I don't think you look TE here as the bulk of the top talent should be there in round 2-3.

  13. #88
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    Realistically we just need more star players on defense. Doesn't exactly matter where. The only real shining aspect we currently have is Defensive Line, but even there it is a lot of unproven commodities beyond Daniels.

  14. #89
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    Clark is making a name for himself. Those two are both beasts.

    Iím okay with Jackson, but assuming we draft Jackson, it likely means no vet cornerback in FA. That would be a ton of youth with Randall, Jackson and king as starters.

    Drafting entirely for need is foolish, but Iím a big believer in draft pass rushers early. Despite what some people seem to think, pass rushers rarely fall. Last year was an extraordinarily deep draft for pass rusher and there was a pretty decent drop off after watt, who was still a first rounder.

    We donít draft early often, so we need to take our opportunity to draft a rusher if thereís anyone we like near our pick. Iím not saying move up 10 picks for Chubb, cuz thatís expensive. But if we have to slide up a spot or two to get a pass rusher, Iím good with that.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallzi43 View Post
    Realistically we just need more star players on defense. Doesn't exactly matter where. The only real shining aspect we currently have is Defensive Line, but even there it is a lot of unproven commodities beyond Daniels.
    I disagree as crew mention Clark came into his own, and Dean Lowry isn't far behind either. The front three is solid. However, I do agree we need more star players, guys who make the difference we don't have that. We have a number of good talents here Clinton-Dix, Daniel, Clark, Perry, on their way up like King. Blake Martinez came into his own last season. However, when our defense was successful we had game changers like Matthews and Woodson with a number of the good talents like Collins, Shields, Williams, Raji, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Clark is making a name for himself. Those two are both beasts.

    Iím okay with Jackson, but assuming we draft Jackson, it likely means no vet cornerback in FA. That would be a ton of youth with Randall, Jackson and king as starters.

    Drafting entirely for need is foolish, but Iím a big believer in draft pass rushers early. Despite what some people seem to think, pass rushers rarely fall. Last year was an extraordinarily deep draft for pass rusher and there was a pretty decent drop off after watt, who was still a first rounder.

    We donít draft early often, so we need to take our opportunity to draft a rusher if thereís anyone we like near our pick. Iím not saying move up 10 picks for Chubb, cuz thatís expensive. But if we have to slide up a spot or two to get a pass rusher, Iím good with that.
    Absolutely, Clark is an impact player and is on his way up.

    Regardless of who you draft I think you have to bring in at least one veteran at corner just to be safe. It doesn't have to be a free agent splurge, but maybe an older guy with a year or two left.

    I agree to an extent of drafting for need is foolish, but at the same time you want to make sure the player fits in what you are doing as well. I wouldn't disagree on the pass rusher thing, most of the top pass rushers are 1st rounders with a few exceptions.

    The only issue with this years class is how many actually declare for the draft, this can be a pretty deep pass rusher class if the whole group declares. If not it's a very top heavy group in my opinion. Arden Key or Clellin Ferrell would look good in Green and Gold.

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