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  1. #1876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman85 View Post
    Worst trade ever isn't saying much, Theo hasn't made a lot of bad trades that I can remember. His FA signings r hit n miss, but in trades he's been solid. The DJ trade was bad, I think the Castro trade was bad too. I wasn't fond of the chapman trade either, but hard to say that was a bad trade.

    Ultimately I agree I wouldn't trade Russell for Archer, but I don't think in theory it's a bad trade. I'm lower on Archer then most, and I'm higher on Russell then most tho.
    Actually your argument should say "worst trade is saying a lot" considering you are giving examples of bad trades that Russell for Archer would be worse then.

  2. #1877
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    Unless TB is going to rebuild and cut payroll, why would they even consider trading Archer? He's the exact type of player teams want to acquire.

    If they still want to compete and are looking to get young MLB players under control, again, why trade Archer? It's counter productive.

    Back to rebuilding and cutting payroll. IF this is the case, they are going to be looking for cheap top prospects. In which case, the Cubs can't help them.

    I don't know if Archer is available. I mean, why would he be? I've never heard TB say that he was on the market. All I've see on that is on here with the posters, and maybe a writer or two throwing out ideas. Anybody have anything that says different?


    This is from January: This leads me to believe that they will trade him, but he's not "on the market."

    "Luhnow [Astro痴 GM] went to Tampa, from what I知 told, and said alright this is what we値l give you for Chris Archer. We値l give you Tucker. We値l give you Martes. We値l give you David Paulino, who is their second best pitching prospect. We値l give you two more prospects for Archer and Tampa Bay, which kinda surprised me, said 創o we need more than that if we池e going to trade Chris Archer."
    Last edited by thawv; 11-10-2017 at 08:30 AM.

  3. #1878
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    Feb 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    Actually your argument should say "worst trade is saying a lot" considering you are giving examples of bad trades that Russell for Archer would be worse then.
    Those r relatively small losses, compared to the obvious clear wins Theo has had. Trading for Rizz, Arrieta, fowler, Hendricks, Russell, etc. That was my point. I trust thoyer more in trades then FA. FA signings are hard to find as many big wins for Theo tho and has bigger losses.

  4. #1879
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Unless TB is going to rebuild and cut payroll, why would they even consider trading Archer? He's the exact type of player teams want to acquire.

    If they still want to compete and are looking to get young MLB players under control, again, why trade Archer? It's counter productive.

    Back to rebuilding and cutting payroll. IF this is the case, they are going to be looking for cheap top prospects. In which case, the Cubs can't help them.

    I don't know if Archer is available. I mean, why would he be? I've never heard TB say that he was on the market. All I've see on that is on here with the posters, and maybe a writer or two throwing out ideas. Anybody have anything that says different?


    This is from January: This leads me to believe that they will trade him, but he's not "on the market."

    "Luhnow [Astro痴 GM] went to Tampa, from what I知 told, and said alright this is what we値l give you for Chris Archer. We値l give you Tucker. We値l give you Martes. We値l give you David Paulino, who is their second best pitching prospect. We値l give you two more prospects for Archer and Tampa Bay, which kinda surprised me, said 創o we need more than that if we池e going to trade Chris Archer."
    Every player is available if teams receive a player they value more than the one they are trading.

    Archer is very good, but he is a 2 pitch pitcher that really struggles his 3rd time through. I'm guessing a Tampa has lost more of his starts than they've won the last 2 years and he had an ERA over 4 each year. It would be silly for them to consider him untradeable. The cost should be high, but I doubt they are unwilling to consider a fair archer trade.

    Teams don't always announce "we are going to trade this player."

  5. #1880
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    And ultimately I agree to an extent w Bibbs, trading Russell for Archer would be a mistake, I just don't think it's garuanteed to be a huge failure. It would probably end up being a relatively fair trade, bc Archer is still very good and cheap. I guess if I liked Baez more I'd feel better about trading Addy tho, but I don't so to me Russell is more valuable then a CCSP. IMO Russell is worth more then his trade value.

  6. #1881
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    TR thinks that he will get 4/48. What are you thoughts about that?

    Cobb had a 3.07 ERA over his final 17 starts and exhibited the best control of his career. He also had a career high in innings with 179+ innings.

    For the price TR is talking about, I'm all in with him.
    4/48 is right around the limit of what I'd offer him, but he'll get more.

  7. #1882
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    Feb 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Unless TB is going to rebuild and cut payroll, why would they even consider trading Archer? He's the exact type of player teams want to acquire.

    If they still want to compete and are looking to get young MLB players under control, again, why trade Archer? It's counter productive.

    Back to rebuilding and cutting payroll. IF this is the case, they are going to be looking for cheap top prospects. In which case, the Cubs can't help them.

    I don't know if Archer is available. I mean, why would he be? I've never heard TB say that he was on the market. All I've see on that is on here with the posters, and maybe a writer or two throwing out ideas. Anybody have anything that says different?


    This is from January: This leads me to believe that they will trade him, but he's not "on the market."

    "Luhnow [Astro痴 GM] went to Tampa, from what I知 told, and said alright this is what we値l give you for Chris Archer. We値l give you Tucker. We値l give you Martes. We値l give you David Paulino, who is their second best pitching prospect. We値l give you two more prospects for Archer and Tampa Bay, which kinda surprised me, said 創o we need more than that if we池e going to trade Chris Archer."
    I agree w this Archsr seems like an unlikeky trade fit. Hard to replace Archers production for 6 mil a year on a tight budget. I think they have hopes to compete, they still have some good pitching. Archer, Snell, Honeywell, Ordozzi. If I were the GM I'd be willing to trade Ordozzi and/or Colome.

  8. #1883
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP_414 View Post
    Every player is available if teams receive a player they value more than the one they are trading.

    Archer is very good, but he is a 2 pitch pitcher that really struggles his 3rd time through. I'm guessing a Tampa has lost more of his starts than they've won the last 2 years and he had an ERA over 4 each year. It would be silly for them to consider him untradeable. The cost should be high, but I doubt they are unwilling to consider a fair archer trade.

    Teams don't always announce "we are going to trade this player."
    I'm certainly not suggesting that he's untradeable. Because like you said just about every player is tradable if they get something back that they want or need. if a team WANTS to trade a player they absolutely make that known to the rest of the league. Listening to offers doesn't mean you want to trade a player

    My contention is, why would they want to trade him? The only way they could justify trading him is if they received prospects back and they are going to rebuild. But then again if they really wanted to trade him they would have accepted Houston's offer. Maybe they're only willing to trade him if they win the trade decisively

  9. #1884
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    I'm certainly not suggesting that he's untradeable. Because like you said just about every player is tradable if they get something back that they want or need. if a team WANTS to trade a player they absolutely make that known to the rest of the league. Listening to offers doesn't mean you want to trade a player

    My contention is, why would they want to trade him? The only way they could justify trading him is if they received prospects back and they are going to rebuild. But then again if they really wanted to trade him they would have accepted Houston's offer. Maybe they're only willing to trade him if they win the trade decisively
    I don't know where the Houston thing is from or if it is true.

    If, for example, they value Russell more than Archer (and so think they should), then they would trade Russell for Archer. It doesn't have to be for prospects if they are acquiring a player they value more.

    It's not about selling the guy you trade, it's about buying the guy you get.

  10. #1885
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    I don't think anyone ever felt Heyward was a generational talent.
    Clearly, Theo did, no one pays 175 million for non-generational talents. He's definitely more the sum of his parts being greater than the whole, but his defense plus his base running is truly special.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubboy View Post
    No. No he was not.
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Generational talent? Wuuuuut?!?!?!?
    He put up over 30 war by the time he was 25 he kind of was a looking like a generational talent.
    Last edited by ciaban; 11-10-2017 at 10:28 AM.

  11. #1886
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Not negative, but he's a role player, not a good everyday player.
    I don't know a lot of guys who can 3 war and NOT be a good everyday player. I understand like Javy better or saying that Javy has the higher cieling, but you kind of are under ratting him.

  12. #1887
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoChiInChamp View Post
    Also, would probably rather sign Addison Reed than bring back Wade Davis. Most people are in agreement there, right?
    I agree, if they spend on a reliever I hope it's for Reed

  13. #1888
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    Bleacher Report or Bleacher Nation published it in January. I can't remember which one. I'm not really sure how the rules work about posting the link plus I'm at work and I won't be able to pull it up right now but it's there.

    Like most things on this site I'm in the minority. Hahaha.... and Cobb is one of them. Take a look at his pre-surgery numbers. Also, take a look at his last 15 starts of the 2017 season. Myself, I would much rather sign Cobb for 12-15 million a year and give up nothing but money, opposed to giving up one of our young core players for a two pitch pitcher. Albeit an outstanding pitcher, with an incredible amount of swing-and-miss in his game, I would just rather hold on to our young guys. I truly believe they have something special in the making for several years, and I would prefer not to tinker with it

  14. #1889
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Bleacher Report or Bleacher Nation published it in January. I can't remember which one. I'm not really sure how the rules work about posting the link plus I'm at work and I won't be able to pull it up right now but it's there.

    Like most things on this site I'm in the minority. Hahaha.... and Cobb is one of them. Take a look at his pre-surgery numbers. Also, take a look at his last 15 starts of the 2017 season. Myself, I would much rather sign Cobb for 12-15 million a year and give up nothing but money, opposed to giving up one of our young core players for a two pitch pitcher. Albeit an outstanding pitcher, with an incredible amount of swing-and-miss in his game, I would just rather hold on to our young guys. I truly believe they have something special in the making for several years, and I would prefer not to tinker with it
    If you are referring to the Houston offer to the Rays in January you are referring to an offer a year ago. In one year Archer lost 1 year of control and didn't increase his value as a pitcher. Comparing what Houston would have given to TB last year is not a fair comparison to what Archer is worth now. Not saying I would or wouldn't trade Russell or Baez, even, for Archer. Also not sure what is fair and what isn't. But comparing an offer last year to one they will get this year is not an exact comparison (even if they did get the offer mentioned, previously)

  15. #1890
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    Clearly, Theo did, no one pays 175 million for non-generational talents. He's definitely more the sum of his parts being greater than the whole, but his defense plus his base running is truly special.
    $175 over 8 years equates to about $22M a year. With calculations of WAR being about $7M per each 1WAR that has Heyward expected to perform to about a 3.1WAR each year to be worth his contract. That is not a generational player. And even if it was a 7 year deal at that figure(I am not sure of the length) we are still looking at less than a 4WAR. Again, not generational. Fact is it was a large contract that at the time of the deal was very fair, had he kept performing as he had to that point. In fact, I think some did not like they buyout after 3 and 4 years because they felt he would use it. Obviously it does not look that way now.

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