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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    Cutting too deep in my opinion.
    haha, yeah.

    I think Fulmer and Archer are the only two guys to go after though. I'd give up Kingery for one of those two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  2. #227
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    I'd rather have Eickhoff than Duffy. He's younger, profiles similarly, and doesn't cost other prospects (less money too).

    The offer for Archer is probably light, but that's more to my taste. Kingery is completely expendable in my mind.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  3. #228
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    Duffy I was looking at because of the LHP thing. I'm not too big on needing to break up the handidness in starters as I've always been for not caring as long as they get the batters out.

    Kingery is certainly expendable, i do agree to that.

    Kingery to me is kind of like how the Yankees are treating Frazier.

    You would need a great pitcher with him as the centerpiece though.
    Last edited by koldjerky; 12-19-2017 at 10:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  4. #229
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    The Santana deal is $59.5M guaranteed over three years but the Phillies gave a $10M signing bonus. Is the luxury tax hit essentially $20M per year or is there a benefit to this structure, e.g. giving a large up front bonus? I'm assuming the bonus was for incentive purposes. I wish there was a way to get creative with the cap like you can in the NBA. I think the AAV concept is ridiculous. The Phillies should be able to pay Santana $50M this year and $5M next year and the following year if they choose.

    Also, the DH gives the AL an unfair competitive advantage, e.g., place to give rest and hide players who are older and less desirable in the field. That needs to change ASAP.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by axstone26 View Post
    The Santana deal is $59.5M guaranteed over three years but the Phillies gave a $10M signing bonus. Is the luxury tax hit essentially $20M per year or is there a benefit to this structure, e.g. giving a large up front bonus? I'm assuming the bonus was for incentive purposes. I wish there was a way to get creative with the cap like you can in the NBA. I think the AAV concept is ridiculous. The Phillies should be able to pay Santana $50M this year and $5M next year and the following year if they choose.

    Also, the DH gives the AL an unfair competitive advantage, e.g., place to give rest and hide players who are older and less desirable in the field. That needs to change ASAP.
    He'll count for 15 million in 2018, 17 million in 2019, and 17.5 million in 2020. Is this just a complaint about the general structure of contracts because its not like the Phillies won't be able to afford others players in the next few years? Not having a hard salary cap gives baseball teams more flexibility in this sport rather than upfront money in football anyway (big market teams at least).

    As for the DH, I find it silly that two different leagues play under two different sets of rules. The DH isn't going away because of job loss so I am fully expecting one day the DH to get brought into the National League, whether people like it or not.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burkey3472 View Post
    He'll count for 15 million in 2018, 17 million in 2019, and 17.5 million in 2020. Is this just a complaint about the general structure of contracts because its not like the Phillies won't be able to afford others players in the next few years? Not having a hard salary cap gives baseball teams more flexibility in this sport rather than upfront money in football anyway (big market teams at least).

    As for the DH, I find it silly that two different leagues play under two different sets of rules. The DH isn't going away because of job loss so I am fully expecting one day the DH to get brought into the National League, whether people like it or not.
    Your analysis is actually completely innacurate. Google MLB AAV. The total value of the committed money under the contract is extrapolated over the term and prorated annually. The Phillies will be fine, I just disagree with AAV.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by axstone26 View Post
    Your analysis is actually completely innacurate. Google MLB AAV. The total value of the committed money under the contract is extrapolated over the term and prorated annually. The Phillies will be fine, I just disagree with AAV.
    I'm not sure how it count's towards the luxury tax cap but what he's paid per year is what Burkey states because of the bonus being paid. Actually looking at it, it looks like for luxury tax purposes he would count as 20 against. Now my question is now, since he could technically make 77 mil with the 4th year option his AAV goes to 19.25 over that timeframe now. Would it be retro'd? I'm confused lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  8. #233
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    To clarify, the lux tax hit is the total contract including all earned bonuses divided by years. I'm actually still a little unclear how options are handled. I think they're just treated as separate contracts.

    The benefit to this front-heavy structure is for trade purposes because that's when lux tax implications shift. Not only is Santana a more attractive asset simply because he costs less, acquiring teams are only taxed on the amount of salary they take on. By front loading, it's possible to make several million simply disappear from the lux tax formula via trade. It's a weird system.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by axstone26 View Post
    Your analysis is actually completely innacurate. Google MLB AAV. The total value of the committed money under the contract is extrapolated over the term and prorated annually. The Phillies will be fine, I just disagree with AAV.
    Sorry, I misread and thought you were referring too what he’ll make per year, not the AAV. Regardless, baseball has no hard cap, which is the ultimate benefit to a big market team if need be. I doubt the AAV rules get changed unless they add a football hard cap or basketball type soft cap.

  10. #235
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    The current luxury tax is a soft cap. If you need any proof, the penalties have become onerous enough that the Yankees and Dodgers are trading away needed assets to get under the tax threshold.
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  11. #236
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    Yeah, it's crazy, I think if you're over the luxury cap for 3 consecutive years, you're paying like 50%. I believe it's only on the overage though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    The current luxury tax is a soft cap. If you need any proof, the penalties have become onerous enough that the Yankees and Dodgers are trading away needed assets to get under the tax threshold.
    There's a major difference between a soft cap in baseball and basketball. In baseball, going over the cap doesn't prevent you from making any type of signings or trades, you just have to pay money for the penalty. If a team is willing to pay the tax, you can continue to sign free agents. In basketball, you can't sign players outside of the MLE that aren't currently on your roster if you are over the cap. Not to mention teams over the cap need to match contracts for trades to work. Which brings me to my original point of structuring contracts so that a player can be paid $50 million one year and $5 million the next would have very little difference in this sport that can have any type of salary they choose.

    FYI - I'm sure there are some circumstances where front loading contracts could help reduce the penalty but it would be a rarity.
    Last edited by Burkey3472; 12-21-2017 at 12:51 PM.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burkey3472 View Post
    Sorry, I misread and thought you were referring too what he’ll make per year, not the AAV. Regardless, baseball has no hard cap, which is the ultimate benefit to a big market team if need be. I doubt the AAV rules get changed unless they add a football hard cap or basketball type soft cap.
    You shouldn't be sorry, I should be. Work has me sour and I posted a terse response.. sorry.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by axstone26 View Post
    You shouldn't be sorry, I should be. Work has me sour and I posted a terse response.. sorry.
    I don't care if I am called out for being wrong, as long as I am. In this case I was because I misread your post (mostly due to multitasking at work).

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burkey3472 View Post
    There's a major difference between a soft cap in baseball and basketball. In baseball, going over the cap doesn't prevent you from making any type of signings or trades, you just have to pay money for the penalty. If a team is willing to pay the tax, you can continue to sign free agents. In basketball, you can't sign players outside of the MLE that aren't currently on your roster if you are over the cap. Not to mention teams over the cap need to match contracts for trades to work. Which brings me to my original point of structuring contracts so that a player can be paid $50 million one year and $5 million the next would have very little difference in this sport that can have any type of salary they choose.

    FYI - I'm sure there are some circumstances where front loading contracts could help reduce the penalty but it would be a rarity.
    Just a point, going over the lux tax multiple years does actually affect draft picks and international bonus pool.
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