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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    Well Whaley was here for a long time. As I have said every year, he hurt this franchise tremendously. Draft picks for many years have now been wasted. Not finding a QB is all on him and the entire scouting department that has finally been fired.

    We need a QB, he wastes it on EJ. We need a backup running back, he picks Karlos Williams, over Jay Ajayi. He needs a TE, he goes with Troop over Gronkowski. We need a QB, he picks a no name WR instead of taking a flyer on Russel Wilson. If anyone is mad we never found the QB of the future, the blame falls on Whaley.
    It's everyone's fault, going back to Polian. He didn't have the foresight to continue to draft QBs while Kelly was on the roster. Donahoe and Nix/Whaley were the only ones to at least try. I'd rather draft Losman and Manuel than not draft anyone at all or continue to take fliers on mid-late round guys like Trent Edwards, Levi Brown, Cardale Jones, or Peterman.

    That's actually the complete list of QBs the Bills have drafted since Kelly retired. Compare that to what the Patriots have done in the early-mid rounds, and overall, while having Brady. It doesn't make sense. Two first round picks and one second round pick in 34 years.
    Last edited by smood999; 10-12-2017 at 12:22 PM.

  2. #17
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    For more context on why I don't blame those guys for missing on Manuel and Losman, but applaud them for at least trying (although they didn't pull the trigger nearly enough):


  3. #18
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    A good RB can change a franchise ala Peterson, Tomlinson fornette looks the part too ect. The thing with them though is you need to build the game plan around them. Where as the qb has a major impact no matter what. I'd argue that Calvin Johnson changed that franchise around. Larry Fitzgerald has seemed to raise the cards floor. There is definitely game changing talents out there outside of qb. They are even harder to find though. There are probably. 4-5 game changing WR's/rb in the league at any given time where there are usually around 15 impressive qb's.

  4. #19
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    The difference too with a franchise changing qb is they also have 20 year careers and the best ones are pretty damn consistent and harder to game plan around than a 'weapon'.

  5. #20
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    Even though some might think itís a coin flip whether or not a 1st round QB hit or misses, the difference in Wentz, Watson, Winston and EJ is, all were predicted to be great when EJ had no praise at all and the popular forecast was he was suppose to be a 3 rd round flier.

    And I wouldnít base Adam Silvaís, or anyoneís opinion as being a fact. Teams canít just plug in a QB and win. They need a line, they need a RB and compitant WRís. Thatís why itís a team sport.

    Tyrod only has the RB, in all the years he has been here. There is not one QB in this league right now, that would get different results with the team in front of him. Zay Jones, Holmes, Clay etc have had a dozen passes hit them with both hands and they drop it. Look back at the play in the third qtr. Tyrod hiked it quickly and threw to Zay Jones standing at the line three feet away, with nobody in front of him. Could have been an easy TD. Zay drops it. We could be undefeated this year and we canít blame these two losses on the QB. I have dinner with a former Bills player once a month and I wish I could voice what the players in the locker room are really saying. But all I will say is not a sole is blaming Tyrod like half the fans are. And not one player in the locker room feels Peterman or a first round pick QB next year will accomplish more than Tyrod.
    Last edited by sabres11; 10-14-2017 at 10:45 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    Even though some might think itís a coin flip whether or not a 1st round QB hit or misses, the difference in Wentz, Watson, Winston and EJ is, all were predicted to be great when EJ had no praise at all and the popular forecast was he was suppose to be a 3 rd round flier.

    And I wouldnít base Adam Silvaís, or anyoneís opinion as being a fact. Teams canít just plug in a QB and win. They need a line, they need a RB and compitant WRís. Thatís why itís a team sport.

    Tyrod only has the RB, in all the years he has been here. There is not one QB in this league right now, that would get different results with the team in front of him. Zay Jones, Holmes, Clay etc have had a dozen passes hit them with both hands and they drop it. Look back at the play in the third qtr. Tyrod hiked it quickly and threw to Zay Jones standing at the line three feet away, with nobody in front of him. Could have been an easy TD. Zay drops it. We could be undefeated this year and we canít blame these two losses on the QB. I have dinner with a former Bills player once a month and I wish I could voice what the players in the locker room are really saying. But all I will say is not a sole is blaming Tyrod like half the fans are. And not one player in the locker room feels Peterman or a first round pick QB next year will accomplish more than Tyrod.
    I completely disagree with the bold and history has proven it. We've seen Manning and Brady win without a running game, with average at best WRs, with bad defenses and with bad offensive lines at any given time.

    We've seen a Colts team go from Super Bowl winner and contender one year to winning one game the next because they lost Manning, to making the playoffs the next year because they drafted Luck. All of this again with no personnel changes.

    We've seen that same Colts team go from playing in the AFC Championship Game to not making the playoffs the next year because Luck was hurt.

    The Packers have been under .500 without Rodgers.

    Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger are the only QBs to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl since 2001 every year outside of Flacco and Rich Gannon and no, those teams did not always have the best teams.

    Yes, it's a team game and everyone has a job to do but no other position has that big of an impact on the field. Teams lose their starting RB, LT, WR, DE, DB, etc. without a big change in overall performance. Once they lose their starting QB, they struggle to win games.

    How good were the Seahawks before Russel Wilson? How bad were the Saints before Brees? Raiders and Carr? Titans and Mariota? Those teams didn't go through a complete overhaul of personnel, they just found the QB.

  7. #22
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    I agree with both ends of this conversation.

    I dont think Brady or Luck or Manning could have led weaker teams to beat better teams in the playoffs in their rookie seasons. I also dont think Roethlisburger would be the QB he is now if he was brought into the league with a team like the browns. I dont think Brady would be who he is if he was drafted by the browns.

    The thing missing from your comment about the Colts and andrew luck was that they were truely a horrible team once Manning left and i think it was by design. they spent a lot of FA money after drafting Luck to bloster the defense and Oline.

    Having a franchise QB in place impacts the team in more ways than just the passing offense. It adds stablilty and you go into each game believing you have a chance. even being down 2 td's with 2 minutes in the 4th seems possible with a franchise qb.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I agree with both ends of this conversation.

    I dont think Brady or Luck or Manning could have led weaker teams to beat better teams in the playoffs in their rookie seasons. I also dont think Roethlisburger would be the QB he is now if he was brought into the league with a team like the browns. I dont think Brady would be who he is if he was drafted by the browns.

    The thing missing from your comment about the Colts and andrew luck was that they were truely a horrible team once Manning left and i think it was by design. they spent a lot of FA money after drafting Luck to bloster the defense and Oline.

    Having a franchise QB in place impacts the team in more ways than just the passing offense. It adds stablilty and you go into each game believing you have a chance. even being down 2 td's with 2 minutes in the 4th seems possible with a franchise qb.
    They didn't do that immediately, but they tried after with no success. They've had one of the worst offensive lines and worst defenses in the league since Luck was drafted. They had that with Manning as well, but no one noticed until the season he was out. They went from 10 wins (Manning) to 2 wins (no Manning) to 11 wins (Luck's rookie season) all with the same glaring holes. The only thing that changed was the QB. They couldn't even run the ball and had to trade a first round pick for Trent Richardson a year later. That didn't even work.
    Last edited by smood999; 10-17-2017 at 09:15 AM.

  9. #24
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    The Bottom line is, the Bills have been managed very poorly. To not make it to the playoffs in 2 decades is not just being unlucky. It is due to the incompetent players that our GMS continuously drafted. We keep wasting picks on players and then on sundays, for 17 years, they don't perform. The best players on this team right now, were drafted by other teams. That explains it all.

    Hopefully this new regime can get it right, but it is becoming worrisome, that every scab from Carolina is on our GM's speed dial. Tolbert is mediocre. Clay is terrible. Brown is non factor. The AFC East and a wild card seed is right there to be taken, but I don't see any help coming from our GM yet. Mills is so bad at right guard, anyone on any practice squad has to be better. As I said a million times, him and Miller are 4th and 5th worse in the league. Anyone free agent, any practice squad player has to be better than that, but we remain status quo.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    The Bottom line is, the Bills have been managed very poorly. To not make it to the playoffs in 2 decades is not just being unlucky. It is due to the incompetent players that our GMS continuously drafted. We keep wasting picks on players and then on sundays, for 17 years, they don't perform. The best players on this team right now, were drafted by other teams. That explains it all.

    Hopefully this new regime can get it right, but it is becoming worrisome, that every scab from Carolina is on our GM's speed dial. Tolbert is mediocre. Clay is terrible. Brown is non factor. The AFC East and a wild card seed is right there to be taken, but I don't see any help coming from our GM yet. Mills is so bad at right guard, anyone on any practice squad has to be better. As I said a million times, him and Miller are 4th and 5th worse in the league. Anyone free agent, any practice squad player has to be better than that, but we remain status quo.
    If it's about making the playoffs, you're correct.

    If it's about winning a Super Bowl, nothing else matters until they get a franchise QB.

  11. #26
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    All these franchise QBs are not guaranteed anything this year. Brady, Big Ben, Flacco, Dalton, etc all look pretty bad this year.

    Then in the NFC you have Rodgers hurt, Matt Ryan canít throw a TD to Julio this year. If you think Winston is good, he has the same exact stats as Tyrod, and he has Evans and Jackson to throw to. Manning is struggling. Newton is inconsistent.

    With the franchise QBs looking like this, the road to the super bowl, with this defense, may not be as hard as you think. Tyrod needs the weapons.

    The Bills signed Deonte Thompson today. I liked him out of pre season a couple years ago. Donít be surprised if he sees a lot of targets this week and surprises some of you with a lot of catches.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    They didn't do that immediately, but they tried after with no success. They've had one of the worst offensive lines and worst defenses in the league since Luck was drafted. They had that with Manning as well, but no one noticed until the season he was out. They went from 10 wins (Manning) to 2 wins (no Manning) to 11 wins (Luck's rookie season) all with the same glaring holes. The only thing that changed was the QB. They couldn't even run the ball and had to trade a first round pick for Trent Richardson a year later. That didn't even work.
    I believe you're mistaken. I recall them going on a spending spree the off-season they drafted luck.

  13. #28
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    I think a part of the pats struggles have to do with them getting away from signing vets at the end of their careers looking to win a ship. They used to have that market cornered.

  14. #29
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    Who would you list as our best players? Our best players on defense outside of hughes and Hyde have been drafted. White might be our best player and he is a rookie drafted by the current regime while also picking up an additional 1st. I have faith just not this season. For me it's all about getting a solid young team together for the fall of Brady.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    All these franchise QBs are not guaranteed anything this year. Brady, Big Ben, Flacco, Dalton, etc all look pretty bad this year.

    Then in the NFC you have Rodgers hurt, Matt Ryan canít throw a TD to Julio this year. If you think Winston is good, he has the same exact stats as Tyrod, and he has Evans and Jackson to throw to. Manning is struggling. Newton is inconsistent.

    With the franchise QBs looking like this, the road to the super bowl, with this defense, may not be as hard as you think. Tyrod needs the weapons.

    The Bills signed Deonte Thompson today. I liked him out of pre season a couple years ago. Donít be surprised if he sees a lot of targets this week and surprises some of you with a lot of catches.
    Name all of the Super Bowl winning QBs of the past 20-30 years. Youíre hoping the Bills can be the less than 1%.

    Flacco and Dalton donít belong in that group. Outside of two elite playoff performances, Flacco has been average at best throughout his career.

    Brady and Roethlisberger are also at the ends of their careers. Not sure thatís a fair point to make.

    Also, do you have any doubts the Patriots will still win double digit games despite having a bad offensive line and terrible defense? Brady at 40 is still going to take that team far. Their struggles in all other areas are well documented this season and further proves my point...especially if they still go on to win 10-12 games and the division. They definitely arenít missing the playoffs.
    Last edited by smood999; 10-18-2017 at 07:54 AM.

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