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Thread: Gerrymandering

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    they will just find another way to challenge it...

    there will be a motion to US Supreme Court once the Chief Justice doesn't recuse himself asserting bias

    once they submit the new districts to the governor and he doesn't approve them the state supreme court has said they will then draw the districts themselves... which will be challenged... and will have a very good chance of succeeding because of the separation of powers

    unless a compromise is reached between the Governor and the Legislature it will go on for some time.
    That is very possible, however there isn't enough time before the election for that entire process to play out, so at the very least the next election will be on the current Congressional maps and not any new ones drawn.

    As for a compromise between the Governor and the Legislature, currently the Governor has more negotiating power, so the Legislature will have to capitulate at some point, especially if they start losing seats after the election.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    they will just find another way to challenge it...

    there will be a motion to US Supreme Court once the Chief Justice doesn't recuse himself asserting bias

    once they submit the new districts to the governor and he doesn't approve them the state supreme court has said they will then draw the districts themselves... which will be challenged... and will have a very good chance of succeeding because of the separation of powers

    unless a compromise is reached between the Governor and the Legislature it will go on for some time.
    Yep. Just like a kid that asks dad then mom then grandma, grandpa etc...then push every step of the way to try to stop it and at the least delay it as long as possible

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    That is very possible, however there isn't enough time before the election for that entire process to play out, so at the very least the next election will be on the current Congressional maps and not any new ones drawn.

    As for a compromise between the Governor and the Legislature, currently the Governor has more negotiating power, so the Legislature will have to capitulate at some point, especially if they start losing seats after the election.
    sure there is ... that is what stays are for... to keep the existing system in place while the courts review...

    its no different than the DACA stay issued by the appellate court... everyone knows that won't hold up in the supreme court but they can slow down the process and run out the clock

    If the Supreme Court is given a challenge that says it is unconstitutional for the state supreme court to draw the boundries then it can be held up and not effect these elections.

    I hope the legislators get their heads out of their ***** and get something done because it is a losing proposition long term when they become the minority party.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny01 View Post
    Yep. Just like a kid that asks dad then mom then grandma, grandpa etc...then push every step of the way to try to stop it and at the least delay it as long as possible
    yep...

    and fwiw... I am not siding with the Repubs... just merely pointing out the legal challenges that can happen.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    yep...

    and fwiw... I am not siding with the Repubs... just merely pointing out the legal challenges that can happen.
    Oh I know. This is an issue we line up pretty close on I think

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    This kind of lazy both-siderism is why weíre in the fix that weíre in.
    And maybe some good will come of it. And itís not lazy, it actually requires a good bit of effort to see the corruption all around and not just pick a side like itís sports teams.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #97
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    https://www.salon.com/2018/02/06/how...-our-politics/

    Gerrymandering has been the strategy of both parties at various times in history. Right now it skews incredibly right and more and more just keeps trickling out. In terms of what we've been dealing with since Obama took office, well....save the bothsidesism until it's maybe deserved again.
    this my sig

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    https://www.salon.com/2018/02/06/how...-our-politics/

    Gerrymandering has been the strategy of both parties at various times in history. Right now it skews incredibly right and more and more just keeps trickling out. In terms of what we've been dealing with since Obama took office, well....save the bothsidesism until it's maybe deserved again.
    Doesn't matter how long it's gone on, it is time to get rid of it now, or it will just continue to get worse.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    And maybe some good will come of it. And itís not lazy, it actually requires a good bit of effort to see the corruption all around and not just pick a side like itís sports teams.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sure, both sides have their corrupt weasels, but the GOP has a hell of a lot more of them. And right now, the GOP has declared war on our democracy and democratic institutions, there's nothing even remotely comparable to that going on on the Democratic side right now. There was an excellent article in the Atlantic the other day called "boycott the GOP". It's a great read.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    Sure, both sides have their corrupt weasels, but the GOP has a hell of a lot more of them. And right now, the GOP has declared war on our democracy and democratic institutions, there's nothing even remotely comparable to that going on on the Democratic side right now. There was an excellent article in the Atlantic the other day called "boycott the GOP". It's a great read.
    I don't know that you can brand the entire GOP with what's going on right now. There are plenty of respectable (I mean, tailor that within the scope of politics here) people left in the GOP. The Tea Party and Trumpers kind of hijacked the whole thing, but in due time it'll level out.

    The calm approach by most of the centrists in DC right now seems to lead me to believe, it will get shut down soon enough. I personally feel that the GOP's constant favoritism to corporations over individuals, and the faction who seem to think party politics is bigger than national security and unity is a huge problem like you said. The Dems may be the lesser of evils right now because of that, but they never cease to disappoint me in their inability to fight, create a clear message and stick by what they claim their platform is. Makes into more of a charade than genuine politics.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    I don't know that you can brand the entire GOP with what's going on right now. There are plenty of respectable (I mean, tailor that within the scope of politics here) people left in the GOP. The Tea Party and Trumpers kind of hijacked the whole thing, but in due time it'll level out.

    The calm approach by most of the centrists in DC right now seems to lead me to believe, it will get shut down soon enough. I personally feel that the GOP's constant favoritism to corporations over individuals, and the faction who seem to think party politics is bigger than national security and unity is a huge problem like you said. The Dems may be the lesser of evils right now because of that, but they never cease to disappoint me in their inability to fight, create a clear message and stick by what they claim their platform is. Makes into more of a charade than genuine politics.
    Oh, no doubt. Iím just as frustrated with Demsí refusal to fight the GOP on ANYTHING if not more so. But Iím still gonna vote for them straight ticket because the GOP is such an abomination right now. Doesnít really matter who the Dems put up.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    Oh, no doubt. Iím just as frustrated with Demsí refusal to fight the GOP on ANYTHING if not more so. But Iím still gonna vote for them straight ticket because the GOP is such an abomination right now. Doesnít really matter who the Dems put up.
    Yeah sometimes I think I'm going to vote that way in frustration, but I tend to spend too much time on my mail in ballot and get caught up on individual qualifications. That tends to make my ballot a mix of all parties, 2 major and others. It's probably a bad approach since apparently they all just band together on the important issues.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    This post shows how much of an partisan hack you truly are

    "Yes both sides are guilty of it" but who cares because it's just a GOP issue right now

    That's what you're saying and it's a joke
    Just wanna give this a bump because this "bothsidesism" nonsense is, well, indisputably nonsense at this point. Of course Brewersfan would never articulate why I'm wrong, because that's not what he does, but here's why I'm right.

    9 of the 10 most rigged states are rigged for Conservatives. 90% isn't anywhere close to 50%, folks!

    North Carolina: 10 R vs. 3 Dems after 2014 in the House
    Pennsylvania (voted for 6 straight Democratic presidents pre-Trump): 10 R vs. 3 Dems
    WV: Whittled down districts to 3 over time, almost impossible for the more than 33% of Dems to ever have representation in the House
    Kentucky: Shamelessly crammed the growing urban populations into existing districts, 5/6th representation despite being about 35% blue.
    Louisiana: crammed Baton Rouge and New Orleans into one district so the other 5 would never go blue.
    Utah they've divided Salt Lake City into three rural districts to ensure all districts go red
    Texas: the 35th district is as heinous as it gets. 25 to 11 after 2014 in what's at best a 60/40 state, but probably more like 55/45.
    Arkansas: As a state it's about 60-40 and it's entirely represented by Republicans.
    Ohio: 12 R vs. 4 D after 2016, and considering it's a swing state that's weird!

    The Dems do dabble in gerrymandering, they just either are worse at it or don't care to play dirty as often.

    Maryland: 60/35, 7 Dems vs. 1 Republican (check out their 3rd district!)...probably the most gerrymandered state outside of North Carolina.


    The courts have longed avoided gerrymandering cases for a variety of reasons but we're finally getting some action! Perhaps it's gotten that bad. Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Maryland, North Carolina...they've all either seen courts make a decision or have gotten closer than ever.

    It is something that everyone should agree is wrong and bad and happening. It is not something that you should pretend isn't handing a huge advantage to one side over the other right now.
    this my sig

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Just wanna give this a bump because this "bothsidesism" nonsense is, well, indisputably nonsense at this point. Of course Brewersfan would never articulate why I'm wrong, because that's not what he does, but here's why I'm right.

    9 of the 10 most rigged states are rigged for Conservatives. 90% isn't anywhere close to 50%, folks!

    North Carolina: 10 R vs. 3 Dems after 2014 in the House
    Pennsylvania (voted for 6 straight Democratic presidents pre-Trump): 10 R vs. 3 Dems
    WV: Whittled down districts to 3 over time, almost impossible for the more than 33% of Dems to ever have representation in the House
    Kentucky: Shamelessly crammed the growing urban populations into existing districts, 5/6th representation despite being about 35% blue.
    Louisiana: crammed Baton Rouge and New Orleans into one district so the other 5 would never go blue.
    Utah they've divided Salt Lake City into three rural districts to ensure all districts go red
    Texas: the 35th district is as heinous as it gets. 25 to 11 after 2014 in what's at best a 60/40 state, but probably more like 55/45.
    Arkansas: As a state it's about 60-40 and it's entirely represented by Republicans.
    Ohio: 12 R vs. 4 D after 2016, and considering it's a swing state that's weird!

    The Dems do dabble in gerrymandering, they just either are worse at it or don't care to play dirty as often.

    Maryland: 60/35, 7 Dems vs. 1 Republican (check out their 3rd district!)...probably the most gerrymandered state outside of North Carolina.


    The courts have longed avoided gerrymandering cases for a variety of reasons but we're finally getting some action! Perhaps it's gotten that bad. Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Maryland, North Carolina...they've all either seen courts make a decision or have gotten closer than ever.

    It is something that everyone should agree is wrong and bad and happening. It is not something that you should pretend isn't handing a huge advantage to one side over the other right now.
    yeah... it is bad and only getting worse...

    one of the funniest ones now is in California as the Senate primaries are no longer by party and the two top vote getters get to run in the general election even if they are from the same party...

    both parties want to rig the system... the repubs are just in a better position right now thanks to Obama's parties horrid showing in 2010

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    yeah... it is bad and only getting worse...

    one of the funniest ones now is in California as the Senate primaries are no longer by party and the two top vote getters get to run in the general election even if they are from the same party...

    both parties want to rig the system... the repubs are just in a better position right now thanks to Obama's parties horrid showing in 2010
    Republicans have long been much more ruthless in terms of politicking. It's not even really a criticism from me...because frankly I'd love it if politicians I really liked and who fought for things I really support were so ruthless. Get **** done!

    I mean, I do draw some lines, of course. Gerrymandering is absolutely one of those lines. It's a direct undermining of our supposed representative democracy. It's been an incredibly effective apparatus for the Republicans of late. Really gives them a nice cushion to play with.

    My best friend in college was a poly sci major whose pet obsession was redistricting. He'd go around surveying students about it for projects he was working on and the number of people who didn't even know what "gerrymandering" or "redistricting" was always shockingly low. It's still something that's not covered nearly enough but it feels a bit more on the collective's consciousness. And as long as that trend continues I think we'll get closer and closer to figuring out a way to curb this all.

    So I do have some more optimism than you. I mean, I know that historically (especially those on the right in this Supreme Court) the courts don't really care to "interfere", but I see a bit of a tide turning. No better evidence than my state. We'll see though. Some of these liberal justices need to make sure they don't trip and fall anytime in the next two years Then we'd really be screwed.
    this my sig

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