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Thread: Gerrymandering

  1. #1
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    Gerrymandering

    It's terrible and both sides of the aisle admit to doing it regularly and most efforts to stop it fail quick and quiet.

    There is a case in front of the Supreme Court on it and I certainly hope they come up with some realistic way to draw the lines in a more equitable manner.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/u...wisconsin.html
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  2. #2
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    Good post. Yeah there is software to make fair districts, and also district maps from before all this started to consult.

    Every time I walk by Elbridge Gerry's house (Marblehead MA.) I think about that not being a good thing to be remembered for. He was a VP too, but, they don't do much as we know.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

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    Hope they do.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    Like you said both parties do it and there is no "fair" way, which is why the courts are really hesitant. I don't expect that to change and if it does it will politicize the judiciary more than anything in the history of the nation.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Like you said both parties do it and there is no "fair" way, which is why the courts are really hesitant. I don't expect that to change and if it does it will politicize the judiciary more than anything in the history of the nation.
    The judiciary making judgements on the fairness of laws is nothing new at all.

    The best proposals I've heard were:

    1. a committee made up of 2 Dems, 2 Reps, and 1 independant draw the lines.

    2. a state chooses east to west or north to south, and then the state is divided in equal slices by population in that direction. So for CA they would probably choose north to south and the state would be sliced by into districts where every district has approximately equal population and each district extends from the west coast to the eastern side of the state.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    The judiciary making judgements on the fairness of laws is nothing new at all.

    The best proposals I've heard were:

    1. a committee made up of 2 Dems, 2 Reps, and 1 independant draw the lines.

    2. a state chooses east to west or north to south, and then the state is divided in equal slices by population in that direction. So for CA they would probably choose north to south and the state would be sliced by into districts where every district has approximately equal population and each district extends from the west coast to the eastern side of the state.
    You clearly haven't thought this through. First of all, what you're giving is a political solution. Some states have done that (Iowa). However you have to have political agreement to reach that - increasingly we do not have that. What we're asking is that a judge decide what is "fair" - that is entirely different and brings a political issue under a judge's order. The judiciary tries to avoid doing that in all cases.

    Moreover there is no reason to assume physical "shapes" are any more "fair" than doing something where you, say, straddle a county line. What you propose would be hugely unfair to anyone in the east of LA's district, for instance, because they would have nothing in common with the people who vote on their elected representatives. The vast majority of the state would be totally unrepresented (even moreso than now) because of the urban supercenters in that state. You may think this is "fair" but there are many that would disagree.

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    Oh and no, judges don't decide what laws are "fair." That is what legislatures do. Judges decide which laws are "legal."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Like you said both parties do it and there is no "fair" way, which is why the courts are really hesitant. I don't expect that to change and if it does it will politicize the judiciary more than anything in the history of the nation.
    There are lots of efforts using software that are quite good. It's a problem given in some college courses. Obviously the parties won't agree unless they "win", so if they both don't like a plan, that might be the one.

    A radial change would be even more fair. Each state votes for a slate of Senators or Reps by voting by party.

    If a party gets 60% of the vote they get 60% of the seats - concentrated on where they got the most votes, and designate their own people to serve. They will want to choose good people obviously. It should cut down time used in elections and cut off a lot of bickering between candidates.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    You clearly haven't thought this through. First of all, what you're giving is a political solution. Some states have done that (Iowa). However you have to have political agreement to reach that - increasingly we do not have that. What we're asking is that a judge decide what is "fair" - that is entirely different and brings a political issue under a judge's order. The judiciary tries to avoid doing that in all cases.

    Moreover there is no reason to assume physical "shapes" are any more "fair" than doing something where you, say, straddle a county line. What you propose would be hugely unfair to anyone in the east of LA's district, for instance, because they would have nothing in common with the people who vote on their elected representatives. The vast majority of the state would be totally unrepresented (even moreso than now) because of the urban supercenters in that state. You may think this is "fair" but there are many that would disagree.
    I'm not providing a solution of my own, just the two best I've heard.

    I don't believe there is such a thing as fair when the number of people involved exceeds 3.

    The point of the population break by slicing up a state is that it is nearly random and random can substitute for equitable when people fail to find it themselves.

    Do you think CA's current districting meets your definition of "fair"?
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Oh and no, judges don't decide what laws are "fair." That is what legislatures do. Judges decide which laws are "legal."
    You are right. I meant equitable within the law. Most of the gerrymandering cases are about the districts being unconstitutional based on race lines, and I used "fairness" to mean that ... clearly poorly.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  11. #11
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    I got a way of drawing maps that will be fair.... Do away with them. Drop the districts and go with proportional representation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    I got a way of drawing maps that will be fair.... Do away with them. Drop the districts and go with proportional representation.
    i thought you were going to draw a map
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    i thought you were going to draw a map
    Hehe
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  14. #14
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    I think it's pretty disingenuous to suggest that right now gerrymandering is an abuse carried out in equal proportions by both parties.

    But yes, it should be an unacceptable practice and I hope (and am optimistic) Justice Kennedy provides the correct decisive vote. Not sure how anyone could boast about being the greatest and freest country in the world when **** like this is so prevalent. It's counter to the core of a representative democracy

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    i thought you were going to draw a map
    I got you fam.

    http://www.refinery29.com/static/bin...9297/image.jpg

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