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  1. #1
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    Offseason Thread

    Feel free to discuss offseason stuff here. Post news and opinions and whatever. Who should the Cardinals get? Who needs to go? Whatever else you want to post.
    Our forums:
    Blues Cardinals



  2. #2
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    I wish they'd fire Matheny and hire Oquendo..

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakerfan85 View Post
    I wish they'd fire Matheny and hire Oquendo..
    That'd be awesome
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  4. #4
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    2018 Payroll

    C: Molina 20 Million
    C: Kelly 500k
    1B: Carpenter 13.75 million
    2B: Wong 4 million
    SS: DeJong 500k
    3B: Jyorko 6.5 million
    IF: Diaz 500k
    IF: Garcia 500K
    OF: Fowler - 16.5 million
    OF: Grichuk - 3 million
    OF: Piscotty - 1.25 million
    OF: Martinez 500k
    OF: Pham 500k

    SP: Martinez - 11.75 million
    SP: Reyes 500k
    SP: Weaver - 500k
    SP: Wacha 6 million
    SP: Flaherty/Waino 500k/19.5

    RP: Flaherty/Waino 500k/19.5
    RP: Cecil 7.75 million
    RP: Lyons 2.5 million
    RP: Bowman 500k
    RP: Tuivailala 500k

    5 million for Leake
    The rest of the 40 man to make the club lets guess 6 million for them

    We are looking around 130 million. So Id guess another 20-25 million or so to work with.
    Last edited by Tkais9009; 10-03-2017 at 12:58 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkais9009 View Post
    2018 Payroll

    C: Molina 20 Million
    C: Kelly 500k
    1B: Carpenter 13.75 million
    2B: Wong 4 million
    SS: DeJong 500k
    3B: Jyorko 6.5 million
    IF: Diaz 500k
    IF: Garcia 500K
    OF: Fowler - 16.5 million
    OF: Grichuk - 3 million
    OF: Piscotty - 1.25 million
    OF: Martinez 500k
    OF: Pham 500k

    SP: Martinez - 11.75 million
    SP: Reyes 500k
    SP: Weaver - 500k
    SP: Wacha 6 million
    SP: Flaherty/Waino 500k/19.5

    RP: Flaherty/Waino 500k/19.5
    RP: Cecil 7.75 million
    RP: Lyons 2.5 million
    RP: Bowman 500k
    RP: Tuivailala 500k

    5 million for Leake
    The rest of the 40 man to make the club lets guess 6 million for them

    We are looking around 130 million. So Id guess another 20-25 million or so to work with.
    Need to trade for Stanton + Donaldson. That'll be more than 20-25 million.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    Need to trade for Stanton + Donaldson. That'll be more than 20-25 million.
    For sure.

    If there is a trade for Donaldson, Gyorko's money is probably traded. If we trade for a Marlin's OFer, one of Piscotty/Grickuk would certainly be part of it.

    I believe the cardinals could maybe reach 160 million in payroll (though it would be tight). The new TV deal finally kicks in and ticket sales were again over 3.4 million so who knows. I put 150-155 million or so because that's already a record high and similar to how they ended 2017.

    The problem with getting both Stanton/Ozuna/Yelich and Donaldson is this: it more than maxes out the payroll and doesn't address the bullpen or thin rotation. Expecting Weaver, Flaherty, Hudson, and Reyes to all come up next year and contribute a 2 or even 3+ WAR is unrealistic. Having that offense would be great, but if you give up 6 runs a game, it won't matter
    Last edited by Tkais9009; 10-03-2017 at 02:02 PM.

  7. #7
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    the one thing that could have the biggest impact on the future of this team is trading Fowler. But based on his comments the other day to the Post-Dispatch, he probably won't waive his no trade clause. But if you are the front office, you HAVE to explore that first and foremost.

  8. #8
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    Just reading the imaginary tea leaves here, but I'd have to guess that the Cardinals will ask for Stanton but will settle on a trade for either Ozuna or Yelich. (If the Cardinals get Stanton it will be because the Marlins pony up some money in the deal. Their new ownership group would love to shed that contract to boost their early profit returns) I think the Cardinals will explore the Donaldson trade but will end up signing Hosmer. I think the FO is finally aware that this team must make an impact in the offseason and that means either ponying up money or trading away 1-2 top prospects they normally wouldn't part ways with. Along with an impact middle of the order bat, getting a bonafide closer is a must. Wade Davis comes to mind. Greg Holland if he declines his player option. Nicasio coming back for the 8th is palatable if the deal is right. I think we can go with a younger SP rotation until the trade deadline. I wish Lynn was coming back but I think that ship has sailed, but I can see the Cardinals signing a 4/5 as insurance for Wacha/Reyes and others for spring training.

    C: Molina
    2b: Wong
    SS: DeJong
    3B: Carpenter (Personally would like to see Carp as a super utility guy-- getting starts in numerous positions)
    1b: Hosmer
    OF:Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna
    OF: Fowler
    OF:Piscotty
    Last edited by cards7; 10-03-2017 at 03:57 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkais9009 View Post
    For sure.

    If there is a trade for Donaldson, Gyorko's money is probably traded. If we trade for a Marlin's OFer, one of Piscotty/Grickuk would certainly be part of it.

    I believe the cardinals could maybe reach 160 million in payroll (though it would be tight). The new TV deal finally kicks in and ticket sales were again over 3.4 million so who knows. I put 150-155 million or so because that's already a record high and similar to how they ended 2017.

    The problem with getting both Stanton/Ozuna/Yelich and Donaldson is this: it more than maxes out the payroll and doesn't address the bullpen or thin rotation. Expecting Weaver, Flaherty, Hudson, and Reyes to all come up next year and contribute a 2 or even 3+ WAR is unrealistic. Having that offense would be great, but if you give up 6 runs a game, it won't matter
    I disagree with the Starting Pitchers.

    Moving Waino to the BP and having him be able to spot start is pretty big.

    Martinez/Reyes/Wacha/Weaver/Flaherty gives a very good rotation and we have a few guys in Gant, Gallen, Gomber (lots of G's) and spring Waino in there also, I think that's a very solid rotation.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkais9009 View Post
    2018 Payroll

    C: Molina 20 Million
    C: Kelly 500k
    1B: Carpenter 13.75 million
    2B: Wong 4 million
    SS: DeJong 500k
    3B: Jyorko 6.5 million
    IF: Diaz 500k
    IF: Garcia 500K
    OF: Fowler - 16.5 million
    OF: Grichuk - 3 million
    OF: Piscotty - 1.25 million
    OF: Martinez 500k
    OF: Pham 500k

    SP: Martinez - 11.75 million
    SP: Reyes 500k
    SP: Weaver - 500k
    SP: Wacha 6 million
    SP: Flaherty/Waino 500k/19.5

    RP: Flaherty/Waino 500k/19.5
    RP: Cecil 7.75 million
    RP: Lyons 2.5 million
    RP: Bowman 500k
    RP: Tuivailala 500k

    5 million for Leake
    The rest of the 40 man to make the club lets guess 6 million for them

    We are looking around 130 million. So Id guess another 20-25 million or so to work with.
    Yup

    And I'd say we have basically 9 outfielders on the roster, and we only need 6 realistically.

    capable of Center -
    Bader
    Grichuk
    Fowler
    Sierra
    Pham

    corner outfielders
    Piscotty
    O'Neill
    Martinez
    Garcia

    Garcia, Bader, O'Neill and Sierra could probably stand more time in AAA. But we easily have 2 outfielders that we could move in a trade. If I'm a betting man, I'm betting that one of Piscotty or Grichuk get traded this off-season.

    I agree with others, we need an impact bat. We have so many 2 win players, would be nice to have a few 5 win players other than Pham.


    I'd like to see Wainwright in the pen without a cutter to throw (just 4 seam and curve) for his final year. I'd like to see a corner infield bat added to the roster that can be a beast.

    My outfield would be
    LF - Pham
    CF - Fowler
    RF - Piscotty
    OF - Martinez
    OF - Grichuk

    AAA
    Garcia
    O'Neill
    Bader
    Sierra

    Moving one of Piscotty or Grichuk in a trade for a bat or prospect.

    Rotation of
    1. Martinez
    2. Reyes
    3. Wacha
    4. Weaver
    5. Flaherty
    With guys like Wainwright, Mayers, Gant available for depth. And land another starter to compete with Flaherty

    Infield of

    C - Molina/Kelly
    1B - Carpenter or new bat
    2B - Wong/Gyroko/Carpenter
    SS - DeJong/Diaz
    3B - Gryroko/Carpenter or new bat

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cards7 View Post
    Just reading the imaginary tea leaves here, but I'd have to guess that the Cardinals will ask for Stanton but will settle on a trade for either Ozuna or Yelich. (If the Cardinals get Stanton it will be because the Marlins pony up some money in the deal. Their new ownership group would love to shed that contract to boost their early profit returns) I think the Cardinals will explore the Donaldson trade but will end up signing Hosmer. I think the FO is finally aware that this team must make an impact in the offseason and that means either ponying up money or trading away 1-2 top prospects they normally wouldn't part ways with. Along with an impact middle of the order bat, getting a bonafide closer is a must. Wade Davis comes to mind. Greg Holland if he declines his player option. Nicasio coming back for the 8th is palatable if the deal is right. I think we can go with a younger SP rotation until the trade deadline. I wish Lynn was coming back but I think that ship has sailed, but I can see the Cardinals signing a 4/5 as insurance for Wacha/Reyes and others for spring training.

    C: Molina
    2b: Wong
    SS: DeJong
    3B: Carpenter (Personally would like to see Carp as a super utility guy-- getting starts in numerous positions)
    1b: Hosmer
    OF:Stanton/Yelich/Ozuna
    OF: Fowler
    OF:Piscotty
    I can't see them signing a big free agent like Hosmer. But I can see them trading for an all-star.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    I disagree with the Starting Pitchers.

    Moving Waino to the BP and having him be able to spot start is pretty big.

    Martinez/Reyes/Wacha/Weaver/Flaherty gives a very good rotation and we have a few guys in Gant, Gallen, Gomber (lots of G's) and spring Waino in there also, I think that's a very solid rotation.
    i agree that the talent is there with the starting rotation, there's just not the durability.

    Weaver has never pitched more than 120 innings in a season, Reyes will be on a hard innings limit, and Wacha could lose his shoulder at any time. Flaherty and Martinez should be fine.

    and the only way we trade for a few impact bats is by dealing the SP depth like Alcantara, Gomber, Hudson, etc. That sets us up for a huge weakness in SP depth.

    and none of this fixes that train wreck that we call a bullpen.





    going full circle to the original point, i'm down with trading for a big bat, i just don't think we can afford 2, both in terms of payroll and prospects/depth given up.
    Last edited by Tkais9009; 10-04-2017 at 09:47 AM.

  13. #13
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    I wonder if we can get Donaldson without giving up major prospect pieces.

    If we can give up Gyorko to replace Donaldson, Diaz for depth for Tulo and Devon Travis (their own GM said they need depth for those 2 since they can't stay healthy, and Grichuk/Piscotty to replace Bautista in RF... that would be nice

    Gyorko, Diaz, and Grichuk or Piscotty for Donaldson also opens up 2 spots on the 40 man which we need. I assume they would want a little more but who knows

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tkais9009 View Post
    I wonder if we can get Donaldson without giving up major prospect pieces.

    If we can give up Gyorko to replace Donaldson, Diaz for depth for Tulo and Devon Travis (their own GM said they need depth for those 2 since they can't stay healthy, and Grichuk/Piscotty to replace Bautista in RF... that would be nice

    Gyorko, Diaz, and Grichuk or Piscotty for Donaldson also opens up 2 spots on the 40 man which we need. I assume they would want a little more but who knows
    I really think Picscotty + Gyroko + a minor league pitcher, doesn't have to be great. It's a 1 year rental of Donaldson with us maybe re-signing him. Piscotty is 26, had an off year, and Gyroko provides them to put him in and replace Donaldson right away. Also, Piscotty taking over for JB in RF solidifies it for them for years to come.

    I will not let go of the fact that I want to go get Stanton above all else. His bat in our lineup, with Fowler and Carpenter in front of him, with their ability to get on base, Stanton could have 200 RBI's (kind of joking) but having a line up of Carp/Pham/Fowler/Stanton/Donaldson would just be amazing. DeJong and Wong adding a little bit at the bottom of the line up and we have our first justifiable line up since Pujols and Holiday. We have guys who get on base, we need the guys to hit them in.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

  15. #15
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    1B Carpenter
    LF Pham
    RF Stanton
    3B Donaldson
    CF Fowler
    SS Dejong
    C Molina
    2B Wong


    Yeah that lineup would be dirty haha. When you have Molina and Wong hitting 7 and 8... thats a sexy lineup lol.

    It would be cool if it happened, just not sure it will

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