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  1. #676
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    North Shore
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    8,100
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Tulo has a full NTC and I wouldn't be expecting anyone to take on Martin's deal unless we were losing the trade in a huge way. This train is going to be ridden out for another 2 years.
    Maybe with Martin and Tulo aboard but if they do bomb, I fully expect (and hope) they trade Donaldson, Happ, Estrada, Pillar, Granderson, Smoak and any bp piece not named Osuna. Depending on the year Morales has he could have some value if you eat some $$. If they are willing to take back a bad contract or two to get some better specs.

  2. #677
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    6,547
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Tulo has a full NTC and I wouldn't be expecting anyone to take on Martin's deal unless we were losing the trade in a huge way. This train is going to be ridden out for another 2 years.
    Meh. They aren't the only assets on the team. I wouldn't be desperate to unload salary tbh. FA is not the way to build a team in this market. Specs are the only way for trades and control.

  3. #678
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    6,043
    As good as the Red Sox and Yankees are on paper, the games still need to be played. I still think the Jays would have a very good team with one more legit starter like Lynn or Cobb. Our other 4 starters all have the potential to post an ERA of 3.25 (or better) and win 18-20 games. If they find 1 more guy with 15+ win potential I would really like their chances of winning 90+ games. Get a starter and one more legit back end reliever (preferably a lefty killer) to go with Osuna and Tepera and I would say they could be more like a 95 win team.


    A late off season flyer potential could be Liriano again. He got them Hernandez last year when he had an ERA of 5.88 as a rental. Imagine what he could land us at the deadline this year if he is having a good season and is signed cheap so everyone can afford him? Then imagine if he also came with a team option in 2019?

    In an ideal world for me we sign someone like Lynn or Cobb, and we also nab someone like Liriano cheap on a one year deal with a team option. He could also pitch out of the bullpen until he is needed to fill a role in the rotation and just hammer lefties with that slider. If we can't get someone like Lynn or Cobb though, Liriano could be a reasonable option as he is someone who they could flip again if they tear it down or simply move him to the bullpen if they have someone like Pannone, SRF or Borucki dominating AAA who they think could give them an upgrade.

  4. #679
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2,015
    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Carrera won't even play much (in all likelihood), and Martin is likely not going to play more than 100 games.


    The OF OBP's likely won't improve much, but I still think the overall OBP's from several positions in the infield should increase. C, 2B and SS were all complete right off's last year with OBP's between .279 and .291.3B was only .364 too because of the time JD missed. If he plays a full year JD could improve on that number...possibly quite significantly as the last 2 seasons he has posted OBP's of .404 and .385. DH could really improve too with someone like Solarte or Granderson around to hit against RHP instead of the .280 number Morales posted last year.

    Think about it...even a .320 OBP from SS, C, 2B and DH (vs. RHP) could give them a massive upgrade at those positions. If they raise the OBP by even .012 they would be league average (at least in 2017). I don't think they are going to be top 5, but I think they should be an average team w.r.t OBP this season.
    I really really really pray you're right buddy. I don't want to be pessimistic about it but after getting my hopes up with Yelich who morosi really seemed to think was coming here, I'm getting more resigned to more of the same. The Mets are a trainwreck. The Jays are running in place and I'm afraid I'll be frustrated all season by bad baseball.

    Id rather watch Alford, Hernandez and kids than the geriatric set
    Last edited by mikepelfrey; 02-03-2018 at 02:37 AM.

  5. #680
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Orlando, FL
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    3,968
    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    I really really really pray you're right buddy. I don't want to be pessimistic about it but after getting my hopes up with Yelich who morosi really seemed to think was coming here, I'm getting more resigned to more of the same. The Mets are a trainwreck. The Jays are running in place and I'm afraid I'll be frustrated all season by bad baseball.

    Id rather watch Alford, Hernandez and kids than the geriatric set
    The games still have to be played. Remember when the Jays got Dickey, Johnson, Buerhle, Reyes, and Melky? How did that end up? Would love to see Alford in CF.

  6. #681
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    11,308
    Iím pretty sure Hernandez and Alford if healthy will get plenty of MLB ABís this season. Iím hoping to see some Pompey too.

  7. #682
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,676
    I prefer to watch the kids as well. One thing that is clear with this administration though is they like to spend a lot time marinating their youth in the minors. I have no sense of whether that it is good or bad thing for development. I guess it could depend on the player.

    I don't mind any of the moves individually, but it all seems like a stop-gap at the moment. Hard to be inspired as a fan this year. Hopefully they add a pitcher of some repute still.

  8. #683
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    Jan 2009
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    6,043
    It looks like a stop-gap because it is one. This regime wants to put "their team" on the field, buy they don't want to look like they are giving up on the first core to make the playoffs on this team in 20 years. JD is still one of the best players in the game, but I doubt they are comfortable paying him what he's worth as a FA even with the falling prices of 30+ year old FA's.

    They are fielding a competitive team, but they aren't going all-in. (Which they shouldn't be.) They will change dramatically in the next 2 years once guys like Martin and Tulo stop taking 25% of the payroll.

  9. #684
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    10,676
    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    It looks like a stop-gap because it is one. This regime wants to put "their team" on the field, buy they don't want to look like they are giving up on the first core to make the playoffs on this team in 20 years. JD is still one of the best players in the game, but I doubt they are comfortable paying him what he's worth as a FA even with the falling prices of 30+ year old FA's.

    They are fielding a competitive team, but they aren't going all-in. (Which they shouldn't be.) They will change dramatically in the next 2 years once guys like Martin and Tulo stop taking 25% of the payroll.
    That's what I expect as well. Not sure how high my interest will be until the prospects start showing up. If we start seeing Hernandez, Alford, Borucki etc this year, it will definitely help my engagement level with the team. Saying that, another legitimate pitcher (Cobb!?) would move the needle for me in believing this team has a good shot at competing for the playoffs this season. At this point it feels like it should be a buyers market for pitching (which would be rare), then again it is a really strange off-season so maybe that isn't exactly true.

  10. #685
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    Jan 2009
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    6,043
    I would be more excited going into ST too if they are able to add another solid SP. At the end of the day though I don't care who it is as long as he does the job. If they are in a playoff race in Aug and Sept and not totally out of it I will be happy, if they fall out of it and are able to trade a number of expiring contracts for prospects/young unproven players I will also be happy. At the end of the day, it all comes down to Sanchez. If he is truly back to 2016 form, they are good. If he misses the entire season again like last year, they aren't good.

    This is a team based on pitching, not hitting like it was in 2015 when they could just outscore everyone. They don't have a 2,3,4 that can each post an OPS over .900, hit 40 bombs and drive in 110+ runs. They have 1 of those guys. They aren't going to win 10-9 type games, they are going to win 3-2 type games.



    As good as their top 4 are though, they aren't big strikeout types. They need the defense behind them to do their job to be elite pitchers. The best chances of doing that, is giving them an OF with range and speed to go with the solid defenders we they have all over the infield. With their infield healthy and an OF of Grandy, Pillar and Grichuk their defense could be one of the best in the AL. They didn't upgrade the offense much in the corners, but the defense should be MUCH, MUCH better from what they got from Bautista, Carrera and Pearce last year.

    So the improvements for this team should already be (not in any particular order):

    - offense @ C, SS and 2B over 162 games
    - defense in the corner OF spots
    - starting pitching (if Sanchez is back)
    - closer (I can't see Osuna blowing 10 games again)

  11. #686
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Rogers Centre
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    17,409
    Anyone see JD tell Heyman to stop blowing hot air? It's about time somebody did it and he did it in the most professional way.

  12. #687
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Anyone see JD tell Heyman to stop blowing hot air? It's about time somebody did it and he did it in the most professional way.
    Sure did...it put the class is classic!

    The worrysome thing to me is, it seems loke thr Jays haven't even tried to start negotiating with JD. He says he wants to stay, they say they have discussed rhe number they feel they are ok with and that they want him to stay, but they haven't offered him anything.

    If I'm the Jays, I lock him up now. Don't wait until ST so he has to field questions about it every day. Get it done and let the man focus on playing baseball.

    Getting it done early also lets them shift Vladdy somewhere else in ST to start his position switch. That way he can get some decent reps in before the games start to count...

  13. #688
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,547
    I want Vladdy in RF like his daddy.

  14. #689
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    701
    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    I would be more excited going into ST too if they are able to add another solid SP. At the end of the day though I don't care who it is as long as he does the job. If they are in a playoff race in Aug and Sept and not totally out of it I will be happy, if they fall out of it and are able to trade a number of expiring contracts for prospects/young unproven players I will also be happy. At the end of the day, it all comes down to Sanchez. If he is truly back to 2016 form, they are good. If he misses the entire season again like last year, they aren't good.

    This is a team based on pitching, not hitting like it was in 2015 when they could just outscore everyone. They don't have a 2,3,4 that can each post an OPS over .900, hit 40 bombs and drive in 110+ runs. They have 1 of those guys. They aren't going to win 10-9 type games, they are going to win 3-2 type games.



    As good as their top 4 are though, they aren't big strikeout types. They need the defense behind them to do their job to be elite pitchers. The best chances of doing that, is giving them an OF with range and speed to go with the solid defenders we they have all over the infield. With their infield healthy and an OF of Grandy, Pillar and Grichuk their defense could be one of the best in the AL. They didn't upgrade the offense much in the corners, but the defense should be MUCH, MUCH better from what they got from Bautista, Carrera and Pearce last year.

    So the improvements for this team should already be (not in any particular order):

    - offense @ C, SS and 2B over 162 games
    - defense in the corner OF spots
    - starting pitching (if Sanchez is back)
    - closer (I can't see Osuna blowing 10 games again)
    If Jays fall out of it could still trade Donaldson and sign him in off season.

    Also, I wonder about trading Ozuna at deadline. With hauls Yanks got for Miller or Chapman. Don't want to move Ozuna but a haul like that Jays have to be open to it

  15. #690
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6,547
    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie View Post
    If Jays fall out of it could still trade Donaldson and sign him in off season.

    Also, I wonder about trading Ozuna at deadline. With hauls Yanks got for Miller or Chapman. Don't want to move Ozuna but a haul like that Jays have to be open to it
    I think they would consider it if another reliever flashes closer potential.

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