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  1. #586
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    Apr 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    That's exactly what I'm saying. none of those guys make a big enough contribution to the offense to change this team around. you could sign them all and be projected to come in last place.
    also management wont (nor do i want them to) trade they type of prospects necessary to bring in the type of bats to turn this ship around.

    refer back to the Dodgers and Astros for the type of lineup you need to have to compete at the highest level these days.
    Sorry I totally disagree with your logic.

    Take out Keuchel (Sanchez), McCann (Martin), and just one of Altuve or Correa (Tulo and Travis) for the amount of time that the Jays lost their players....tell me where the Astros would be last season? Not winning their division that's for sure, maybe not even a wildcard. And this doesn't include Donaldson missing 50 games as well.

    Your logic is flawed. When you take into consideration the injuries we had, and the lack of production we had in the OF with Bautista and Pearce/Carerra platoon. You are insane to think that adding 2 or 3 players of value along with better health to our current lineup would not produce a contender for at least a playoff spot.

  2. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by LechWalesa View Post
    There's more than one way to skin a cat. If the Jays rotation and bullpen can play to their potential, this team could make the playoffs.

    The problem is that the offense, as constructed, is real Jeckyll and Hyde. Outside of Donaldson, who can you count on to consistently produce? Tulo's done; Martin's notoriously streaky; Travis can't stay on the field; Pearce doesn't have a position; Morales could be good or could be a steaming pile of hot garbage, same goes for Smoak; Teoscar was great in September, but we all know we can't rely on him hitting for that much power all season long; Pillar can hit, but strikes out a lot and kills rallies. The list goes on and on. It's amazing that even though there's been relatively little turnover from the 2015 team to now, that they are in fact a completely different ball club, with pitching as their core strength. At the same time, if everything goes right for the group of players who make up the line-up, they could be one of the best offenses in baseball.

    This off-season has been so frustrating from the fans' perspective. The way things have played out, it's hard to imagine the front office doing anything different and I'm glad they haven't come out and said they're trading Donaldson, because that's what the Orioles did with Machado and now they have to backtrack and say they're keeping him, which is just terrible optics going into the season.

    At this point, I'm open minded about 2018. There are still a lot of players out there who could make this club better. There are also some prospects ready to graduate who could be key contributors this season (Tellez [potentially], Alford, Hernandez) and anything can happen once the season gets started. I feel like two keys to success will be the performance of Travis and whatever players graduate when spring training breaks in April.

    Another thing I've been considering is would Donaldson be willing to play first or DH if the team signs him to an extension? It would be pretty amazing to see him in the same line-up as Bichette and Vlad Jr.
    Why do you instantly move JD to 1B and not the kid who most people think is destined to be there anyway before he makes it to the show (or a corner OF spot)? If you resign JD I think you instantly change Vladdy to another position, not move one of the best defenders at 3B in baseball.


    If we resign JD, I think we could see an infield of JD, Tulo, Bichette and Smoak in 2019 with Vladdy in LF/RF.

  3. #588
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    Apr 2008
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    313
    Quote Originally Posted by LechWalesa View Post
    There's more than one way to skin a cat. If the Jays rotation and bullpen can play to their potential, this team could make the playoffs.

    The problem is that the offense, as constructed, is real Jeckyll and Hyde. Outside of Donaldson, who can you count on to consistently produce? Tulo's done; Martin's notoriously streaky; Travis can't stay on the field; Pearce doesn't have a position; Morales could be good or could be a steaming pile of hot garbage, same goes for Smoak; Teoscar was great in September, but we all know we can't rely on him hitting for that much power all season long; Pillar can hit, but strikes out a lot and kills rallies. The list goes on and on. It's amazing that even though there's been relatively little turnover from the 2015 team to now, that they are in fact a completely different ball club, with pitching as their core strength. At the same time, if everything goes right for the group of players who make up the line-up, they could be one of the best offenses in baseball.

    This off-season has been so frustrating from the fans' perspective. The way things have played out, it's hard to imagine the front office doing anything different and I'm glad they haven't come out and said they're trading Donaldson, because that's what the Orioles did with Machado and now they have to backtrack and say they're keeping him, which is just terrible optics going into the season.

    At this point, I'm open minded about 2018. There are still a lot of players out there who could make this club better. There are also some prospects ready to graduate who could be key contributors this season (Tellez [potentially], Alford, Hernandez) and anything can happen once the season gets started. I feel like two keys to success will be the performance of Travis and whatever players graduate when spring training breaks in April.

    Another thing I've been considering is would Donaldson be willing to play first or DH if the team signs him to an extension? It would be pretty amazing to see him in the same line-up as Bichette and Vlad Jr.
    Why is Tulo done??? I don't understand your logic. Even prior to last season where he was injured, Tulo was an above average SS both in the field and with the bat compared to others in the league. Yes his contract is bloated but it doesn't make him done!!! If he can remain healthy, Tulo has the capabilities to help this team in 2018. He is only 32 years old. There are players beyond those years that are still producing and at a high level.

    As for Smoak, Morales and Pillar......if Smoak can still provide great defense at 1B and contribute 25-30 HR with 80+ RBI I will take it. Maybe he doesn't produce like last season but those numbers would be what I would be ok with. Morales had a down season last season, but for a DH he can rebound as his numbers weren't completely off from his norms. The player that I think is going to need to produce better is Pillar. His defense is unquestionably great. But he needs to become consistent with the bat. If he can rebound I think this will make the team better. As for Travis, we just need to keep our fingers crossed that he can put together a full season. Maybe with the addition of Diaz and Tulo being healthy, we can limit games to keep him fresh. That's the hope anyways. But the addition of Diaz has covered us there, which makes us better then we were last season in cas of another Travis injury. Not to mention I believe there is another acquisition to further strengthen our bench for the infield in case of an injury.

  4. #589
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    1,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Daboyz View Post
    Why is Tulo done??? I don't understand your logic. Even prior to last season where he was injured, Tulo was an above average SS both in the field and with the bat compared to others in the league. Yes his contract is bloated but it doesn't make him done!!! If he can remain healthy, Tulo has the capabilities to help this team in 2018. He is only 32 years old. There are players beyond those years that are still producing and at a high level.

    As for Smoak, Morales and Pillar......if Smoak can still provide great defense at 1B and contribute 25-30 HR with 80+ RBI I will take it. Maybe he doesn't produce like last season but those numbers would be what I would be ok with. Morales had a down season last season, but for a DH he can rebound as his numbers weren't completely off from his norms. The player that I think is going to need to produce better is Pillar. His defense is unquestionably great. But he needs to become consistent with the bat. If he can rebound I think this will make the team better. As for Travis, we just need to keep our fingers crossed that he can put together a full season. Maybe with the addition of Diaz and Tulo being healthy, we can limit games to keep him fresh. That's the hope anyways. But the addition of Diaz has covered us there, which makes us better then we were last season in cas of another Travis injury. Not to mention I believe there is another acquisition to further strengthen our bench for the infield in case of an injury.
    Tulo does have some value, but he's never going to be the perennial all-star/mvp candidate he once was. He's now a plus defender with an average-ish bat. I mean the guy produced 0.1 rWAR and exactly 0.0 fWAR last year over what was basically less than half a season. That isn't very encouraging -- that's a replacement level player. Granted, he may bounce back to that two-to-three win player he was in 2015/2016, but he'll never be the same as he once was, especially with the stick, where he's seen the most decline.

    I also don't see why Pillar is the player out of those three who has to be better. To my mind, the one who unquestionably has to be better is Morales, who doesn't play a position and last year was absolutely terrible.

  5. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by LechWalesa View Post
    Tulo does have some value, but he's never going to be the perennial all-star/mvp candidate he once was. He's now a plus defender with an average-ish bat. I mean the guy produced 0.1 rWAR and exactly 0.0 fWAR last year over what was basically less than half a season. That isn't very encouraging -- that's a replacement level player. Granted, he may bounce back to that two-to-three win player he was in 2015/2016, but he'll never be the same as he once was, especially with the stick, where he's seen the most decline.
    He definitely regressed defensively this past season. Granted he's still a good defender at SS but he needs to be elite if he's going to be swinging a ****** bat for us. I was ecstatic when we got Tulo but now I've pretty much given up hope on him with the bat. It sucks because he's the kind of guy who's so easy to root for.

  6. #591
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    Jan 2007
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    Still looking at SP and OF help. Have payroll flexibility to do so and prospects to do so. This is all according to Atkins' interview yesterday. Not sure if it would be a small move or a bigger one. But not satisfied with where they're at yet.

    Some names mentioned by reporters recently are Jarrod Dyson, Lorenzo Cain, Christian Yelich, Alex Cobb and Lance Lynn.

    Yelich is interesting to me. If the Marlins overvalue Pillar and would take him back, I would try a deal centered around him.

  7. #592
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    Jan 2009
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    Yelich would obviously be great but Im sure any deal for him is gonna have Bichette going the other way. Id still probably make that deal if the team was going to go out and spend some more. I like the idea of signing Cain a lot more then other do, hes my ideal target.

  8. #593
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    Jan 2009
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    I like the idea of trading for Cutch too. I cant imagine the price tag being to high.

  9. #594
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    Aug 2008
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    53,080
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Still looking at SP and OF help. Have payroll flexibility to do so and prospects to do so. This is all according to Atkins' interview yesterday. Not sure if it would be a small move or a bigger one. But not satisfied with where they're at yet.

    Some names mentioned by reporters recently are Jarrod Dyson, Lorenzo Cain, Christian Yelich, Alex Cobb and Lance Lynn.

    Yelich is interesting to me. If the Marlins overvalue Pillar and would take him back, I would try a deal centered around him.
    I would sign 1 big named guy for the $20 million then trade for a bounce back candidate for the other guy.

    Out of the guys you mentioned, I can get around the idea of signing Cain and trading for a starter who isn't doing too hot at the moment as a bounce back candidate or innings eater. Maybe Morales for Kennedy/Zimmerman/etc and cash going to balance things out?

  10. #595
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    I highly doubt you see Atkins give up the prospects needed to obtain Yelich. He would be a great addition if you dont need to give up Bichette or Vladdy for him. The only way I trade Bichette is if JD commits to an extension.

    I would love to see them sign Cain more than trade top prospects for Yelich. If they trade Bichette, I want it to be for another solid young SP to go with Stroman and Sanchez. I wonder if TB would listen to an offer for Archer. He is in his prime and wasting his talents pitching in TB where they can't win hin any games. He's an innings eater who is under control for 4 more years on an extremely team friendly deal.

    Would you guys trade Bichette, SRF and TJ Zeuch for 4 prime years of Chris Archer? If not right now, would you if you knew JD was going to be sticking around?

  11. #596
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    Jan 2008
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    10,522
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    I would sign 1 big named guy for the $20 million then trade for a bounce back candidate for the other guy.

    Out of the guys you mentioned, I can get around the idea of signing Cain and trading for a starter who isn't doing too hot at the moment as a bounce back candidate or innings eater. Maybe Morales for Kennedy/Zimmerman/etc and cash going to balance things out?
    I'd still most like to see them go after the best SP possible. Never a bad thing to bump other guys down in the rotation. Don't search for depth, search for top end options and have your bottom end guys turn into depth. Obviously expensive, but fill they should have the budget to do so if they are serious about competing this year.

  12. #597
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by pebloemer View Post
    I'd still most like to see them go after the best SP possible. Never a bad thing to bump other guys down in the rotation. Don't search for depth, search for top end options and have your bottom end guys turn into depth. Obviously expensive, but fill they should have the budget to do so if they are serious about competing this year.
    If they signed a guy like Darvish and traded for a outfielder instead I wouldn't have a problem either. Was just using Cain since he was part of the list.

  13. #598
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    Jan 2009
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    Darvish sounds good but in my eyes he will end up being one of the worst long term deals to sign this offseason. Id rather see if Arrieta could be had on a shorter cheaper deal. Or trade for a guy like Duffy or Salazar.

  14. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    Yelich would obviously be great but Im sure any deal for him is gonna have Bichette going the other way. Id still probably make that deal if the team was going to go out and spend some more. I like the idea of signing Cain a lot more then other do, hes my ideal target.
    In my perfect World we get Cain and Yelich. This is just me playing pretend but if we were able to go out and lock up Cain then I'd turn right to Miami with an offer of Bo, Teoscar and SRF for Yelich.

  15. #600
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    Dec 2011
    Posts
    179
    I'd rather sign Cain and trade for Cole. SRF, Walmoth and Alford with a low spec like Harris should get it done

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