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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic View Post
    I agree with all comments regarding Watson. Thanks guys!! [emoji1612] Itís sad how bad these teams look under bad QBs. For the record. I never had or have anything against Mitch and I actually think heís a good QB but I had the man crush on Watson as our QB
    And that's fair. At this point it's mainly subjective. Watson has played better, yes, but we can both agree it's in a small sample and with different supporting casts.

    I hope they both play well and join the likes of Wentz, Goff, and others who are trending upward. The league needs fresh, young faces at QB.


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  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic View Post
    I guess we can give Watson some credit now.
    Like Cubby said, I don't believe anyone was discrediting him for what he was doing, but skeptical that he could sustain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic
    I didnít see the great talent and great coaching making that much of a difference against the worst defense in the league.
    They were starting Tom Savage, a bottom tier backup. He's worse than Mike Glennon, most likely. I don't think you can draw any definitive conclusions either way from that besides the fact that they're very, very limited with a guy like that at QB.

    Indy isn't a good Defense, but New England has been far and away the worst Defense in the league this year based on DVOA.

    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic
    They put up ridiculous offensive numbers against one of the toughest defense in their building and put up putrid numbers a week later.
    See, I sorta wonder how much of these games you're actually watching? First of all, Seattle isn't an elite Defense anymore. They're still good/very good, but they're not the same team that had that dominant 2-3 year run where nobody could score on them. They blew coverage several times in that game, notably on Watson's first TD where Fuller blew past Earl Thomas. Then another TD of his was Nuk catching the ball at the 25, behind the line of scrimmage and running for a 75 yard TD. I'll give Watson credit for the deep ball because I thought that'd be a weakness for him coming into the league and he obviously has a great rapport with Hopkins, but these are examples of his supporting cast propping him up at times. No doubt he's been impressive, but it's not as black & white as you're implying here either. It isn't all him and it isn't all his supporting cast, but a combination of both. You throw Tom Savage in there with any supporting cast and it's going to be ugly because he's very limited overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic
    Same with the packers. They look terrible with the great weapons and coaching. Hudley has been under this system for 3 years and he still look terrible.
    You're going from the best QB ever to Brett Hundley...is there really much else to say? It would be far more surprising if they didn't look terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic
    Great QBs make players and coaches not the other way around.
    Again, it's a combination of all of them. Bill O'Brien may not be the greatest coach in the world, but he's gotten an absurd stretch from Brian Hoyer (19/7 in 9 games) and taken both he & Brock Osweiler to the Playoffs. Hopkins has been an elite receiver since his 2nd year in the league and very much propped up Hoyer during the hot stretch he had 2 seasons ago. It's an enviable situation for any Rookie QB to step into, not unlike what Dak stepped into last year with Dallas.

    You can easily dispute this by also looking at how awful Goff looked last season with Jeff Fisher as his HC (and eerily similar situation to what Trubisky is in now), and all of a sudden he's playing like one of the 5 best QB's in the league with a competent play caller and weapons on the outside.

    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic
    Even in the sample size of Watson it shouldnít be questioned anymore.
    Why not? It's been 7 freaking games where he's only started 6 of them and looked mediocre in about half of them. I posted this before, but it's worth repeating IMO. There are only TWO QB's in the last 41 years that have been able to maintain a TD% over 9% in a full season and they both did it in MVP seasons, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers, not to mention they're probably the two best to ever play the position. The only other guy that's been close was Brady, also in an MVP season at 8.7%.

    Basically, if he did keep it up it'd not only be the greatest Rookie season for a QB ever (in terms of passing TD's), but one of the best ever for any QB. What makes it even more unlikely is an INT% close to 4%. For reference, that's Cutler's worst years in Chicago bad, Rex Grossman career bad, Mark Sanchez/Derek Anderson/Ryan Fitzpatrick career bad. Eventually those numbers would stabilize and he'd probably settle in as at 6-7% on TD's and 3-4% on INT's, which are both fine, but it's not going to lead to these gaudy numbers each week.

    If you want to continue to ignore these trends and act like what he was doing is sustainable that's fine, but can we at least give it a rest until next season? I've said all I want to say about the guy to this point and while I realize you're not directly comparing him to Trubisky in this post (despite having done it in the past), it isn't an apples to apples comparison and likely won't be one until 2-3 years from now when the rosters around each player are (hopefully) on more equal footing. I hope you realize that and maybe pump the brakes on the hype train for a bit, or at the very least, keep it out of this forum.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanatic View Post
    I guess we can give Watson some credit now. I didnít see the great talent and great coaching making that much of a difference against the worst defense in the league. They put up ridiculous offensive numbers against one of the toughest defense in their building and put up putrid numbers a week later. I wonder what was the difference?? Same with the packers. They look terrible with the great weapons and coaching. Hudley has been under this system for 3 years and he still look terrible. Great QBs make players and coaches not the other way around. Even in the sample size of Watson it shouldnít be questioned anymore.
    Or, alternatively, Savage is just THAT bad and last week was the first in a while that he got to practice with the first team and start in a game, which usually leads to a shaky performance no matter who the qb is. I'm not taking away from Watson because he was clearly good; I just wouldn't look at Savage's performance as a comparison. Dude is hot garbage.

  4. #604
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    Watson looked pretty good, sucks he got hurt - but I guess we'll see how he does next year.
    1985 Bears
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  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Like Cubby said, I don't believe anyone was discrediting him for what he was doing, but skeptical that he could sustain it.


    They were starting Tom Savage, a bottom tier backup. He's worse than Mike Glennon, most likely. I don't think you can draw any definitive conclusions either way from that besides the fact that they're very, very limited with a guy like that at QB.

    Indy isn't a good Defense, but New England has been far and away the worst Defense in the league this year based on DVOA.


    See, I sorta wonder how much of these games you're actually watching? First of all, Seattle isn't an elite Defense anymore. They're still good/very good, but they're not the same team that had that dominant 2-3 year run where nobody could score on them. They blew coverage several times in that game, notably on Watson's first TD where Fuller blew past Earl Thomas. Then another TD of his was Nuk catching the ball at the 25, behind the line of scrimmage and running for a 75 yard TD. I'll give Watson credit for the deep ball because I thought that'd be a weakness for him coming into the league and he obviously has a great rapport with Hopkins, but these are examples of his supporting cast propping him up at times. No doubt he's been impressive, but it's not as black & white as you're implying here either. It isn't all him and it isn't all his supporting cast, but a combination of both. You throw Tom Savage in there with any supporting cast and it's going to be ugly because he's very limited overall.


    You're going from the best QB ever to Brett Hundley...is there really much else to say? It would be far more surprising if they didn't look terrible.


    Again, it's a combination of all of them. Bill O'Brien may not be the greatest coach in the world, but he's gotten an absurd stretch from Brian Hoyer (19/7 in 9 games) and taken both he & Brock Osweiler to the Playoffs. Hopkins has been an elite receiver since his 2nd year in the league and very much propped up Hoyer during the hot stretch he had 2 seasons ago. It's an enviable situation for any Rookie QB to step into, not unlike what Dak stepped into last year with Dallas.

    You can easily dispute this by also looking at how awful Goff looked last season with Jeff Fisher as his HC (and eerily similar situation to what Trubisky is in now), and all of a sudden he's playing like one of the 5 best QB's in the league with a competent play caller and weapons on the outside.


    Why not? It's been 7 freaking games where he's only started 6 of them and looked mediocre in about half of them. I posted this before, but it's worth repeating IMO. There are only TWO QB's in the last 41 years that have been able to maintain a TD% over 9% in a full season and they both did it in MVP seasons, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers, not to mention they're probably the two best to ever play the position. The only other guy that's been close was Brady, also in an MVP season at 8.7%.

    Basically, if he did keep it up it'd not only be the greatest Rookie season for a QB ever (in terms of passing TD's), but one of the best ever for any QB. What makes it even more unlikely is an INT% close to 4%. For reference, that's Cutler's worst years in Chicago bad, Rex Grossman career bad, Mark Sanchez/Derek Anderson/Ryan Fitzpatrick career bad. Eventually those numbers would stabilize and he'd probably settle in as at 6-7% on TD's and 3-4% on INT's, which are both fine, but it's not going to lead to these gaudy numbers each week.

    If you want to continue to ignore these trends and act like what he was doing is sustainable that's fine, but can we at least give it a rest until next season? I've said all I want to say about the guy to this point and while I realize you're not directly comparing him to Trubisky in this post (despite having done it in the past), it isn't an apples to apples comparison and likely won't be one until 2-3 years from now when the rosters around each player are (hopefully) on more equal footing. I hope you realize that and maybe pump the brakes on the hype train for a bit, or at the very least, keep it out of this forum.

    Wow that was impressive the way you broke down my entire post. I havenít seen that type of commentary on something I wrote since receiving one of my papers from my high school English teachers. Good stuff man. Very thorough.

  6. #606
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    Well I thought Glennon was terrible (and still do), but after watching guys like Savage and Hundley, it could be worse.

  7. #607
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  8. #608
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    I think he had seasin ending surgury. Not sure he would help at all


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

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  9. #609
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  10. #610
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    Pick him up

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Pick him up
    How about..............no. Pace won't do it, either.
    Screw sabermetics.

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefire View Post
    How about..............no. Pace won't do it, either.
    Dude, he's like a Calvin Johnson type of talent. Never had character issues, just an addiction problem.

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  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Dude, he's like a Calvin Johnson type of talent. Never had character issues, just an addiction problem.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I mean, it's all dependent on the return as far as I'm concerned. I don't know if I wanna give up a first or even second round pick for him but anything less than that why not?

    2016 PSD Cubs IGT record: 16-3 #AuthenticatesWithmyIGTs

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by La_bibbers View Post
    I mean, it's all dependent on the return as far as I'm concerned. I don't know if I wanna give up a first or even second round pick for him but anything less than that why not?
    We'd be crazy not to. What he was able to do with a team like the Browns is insane. He still looks to be in great shape and is only 26 years old.

  15. #615
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    I wouldn't want to give up anything for him, really. But if it came down to it, I'd give up a 3rd round pick. Gordon/Meredith/Wright/draft pick/Inman looks amazing compared to what the Bears are trotting out there this season.

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