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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by KodytheKing View Post
    Landry has done everything they asked of him. The article has hit on his professionalism and keeping a level head during the game and not getting stupid penalties. On top of all of that he's actually scoring TDs (although a lot of them are schemed open).

    I said it before and I'll say it again. Landry is a good WR. But he's not a top 15 WR and it's tough to build an offense around that. If the misdirection continues from what we saw last week Landry will feast of course, but I still don't think he's a #1 WR. As long as the contract doesn't stop us from addressing other needs I'm ok with it, but with the money he's asking it's going to be tough. (cutting Pouncey, James and Thomas easily opens up enough money to sign Landry and get other players).
    I completely agree with all of that.

  2. #152
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    I have mixed feelings about Landry. I would love to keep him but hard to justify that much money on a slot WR.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    I have mixed feelings about Landry. I would love to keep him but hard to justify that much money on a slot WR.
    It's not a position to build around for sure. Neither is DT but we have unfortunately done that. Suh is playing very well, but his contract is part of the reason we cannot have a great defense. Would have been much smarter to get a slightly lesser DT for much less money, then add more pieces around him. I think you are right about slot receiver in the same way. Landry does everything he can to be the best player he can be. He has even grown up this past year on the field, not taking the "emotional" penalties he used to take and not talking quite as much, yet still remaining a fiery leader type of personality. I think he has pretty much found his winning formula. That said, he is a slot receiver and you'd rather not be stuck in a prohibitive contract at that position. Rather have a great WR so you get more big plays for your money because it is too hard to score TD's by just moving the chains and constantly trying to put together 12 play drives. I think Victor Cruz was the exception to that rule, at least for a few years, but Landry is not.

  4. #154
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    Why not just play Moore last week and this week? We have no chance at playoffs. We are better off losing. See if he's worth bringing back since there's no way Cutler is back.

  5. #155
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    Landry is a good WR that need so be schemed open. When he gets the ball in his hands he can be a threat and has shown that he can be a threat in the red zone because of his versatility. He's a good WR but the problem you get with resigning him is that we still have so many problems to fix and so few assets to do it with. Unless the FO is looking to do widespread changes and create more money I just hate the idea of giving 13mil+ to a limited slot receiver.

    Cutting James, Thomas, Timmons, Pouncey and restructuring Tannehill would create plenty of money to resign Landry and still add some good players this year, but I just don't expect the FO to try and rebuild completely this year. They'll say they were one year removed from the playoffs and without the starting QB and just plug in some old injured ex pro bowler to "fix" it.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by KodytheKing View Post
    Landry is a good WR that need so be schemed open. When he gets the ball in his hands he can be a threat and has shown that he can be a threat in the red zone because of his versatility. He's a good WR but the problem you get with resigning him is that we still have so many problems to fix and so few assets to do it with. Unless the FO is looking to do widespread changes and create more money I just hate the idea of giving 13mil+ to a limited slot receiver.

    Cutting James, Thomas, Timmons, Pouncey and restructuring Tannehill would create plenty of money to resign Landry and still add some good players this year, but I just don't expect the FO to try and rebuild completely this year. They'll say they were one year removed from the playoffs and without the starting QB and just plug in some old injured ex pro bowler to "fix" it.
    I think the Phins are giving more opportunity to Grant to gain the tiniest amount of leverage in negotiations with Landry's camp. I'm not even thinking that Grant is even close to the same level as Landry, but Gase has shown increased confidence in Grant, which could either mean that Parker could be on the block, or they are going to try and get the better end of a Landry deal. I agree, I also don't like the idea of $12-13M/yr for Landry, but that is what the market will be for him.

    I truly believe that James and Thomas are gone. I think Gase is comfortable with Davis at RT, plus he is cheaper and has a ton more upside than James. We know what James is, we don't know exactly what we have in Davis yet. Thomas, unless massively restructured, is gone. I think Timmons stays in case of another injury to MacMillan. Timmons is a very good run stopper, and can back-up MacMillan easily, or start on the outside.

    I am on the fence with Pouncey, dude finally played a full season, but was not as dominant. A restructure would be ideal, but if not, I'm not going to complain about keeping him at the current price . . . or we draft or sign another OC and swap him back to LG. But not sure.

    We'll have more money than we really think we will for FA, and we may even have some additional draft capital too (trade of Parker, Tannehill, Pouncey, Kiko, ect.)

  7. #157
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    Landry can win anywhere and win on his own. Landry has to be schemed open? its the OC job to scheme open your best playmaker but he doesn't need to be schemed open

    this whole concept that Landry has done everything the FO has asked or that he has grown up is bull. he still gets "emotional" penalties. I for one love that about him. I like football players that are passionate. penalties come with that and I'm good with it. nothing about him has changed. Landry of 2017 has been no different than Landry of 2016

    when thinking of what Landry contract will look like the best player to compare and map what he deserves is Doug Baldwin. his contract was 4 years 46M. Landry will get 12-13M and we need to give it to him



    QB position - my top choice is Lamar Jackson. Case Keenum gives me a little hope TH could be enough though I dont give the Vikings any chance of winning the SB with him. I cant rule out Lamar Jackson even though I actually think he goes #1 to the Browns

    RB position - my top choice is Saquon Barkley. reality is we likely stick with Drake. Drake cant be a bell cow. coming off injury but I would love to add Sproles. add Nick Wilson in the draft late

    WR position - I swap in Michael Gallup for Devante Parker. both would cost a R2 pick

    TE position - Julius cant stay healthy and for that reason he goes. swap Julius with Jimmy Graham. trade for Demetrius Harris. draft Christopher Herndon of Miami U in R7. he will likely sit all of 2018. keep Derby

    OL position - Quenton Nelson a real possibility. I think we attack OL in FA and go into the draft with it being the biggest need we erased

    DL position - Arden Key and Cam Wake would be a Bosa and Ingram feared combo until Wake retired. would be my R1 pick if we arent going to go QB

    LB position - Kiko is expensive + he sucks. we dont have anything but McMillan after him though. Roquan Smith and Malik Jefferson are possibilities but not ones that I am a fan of. give me Tremaine Edmunds and Kendall Joseph in rounds 2 and 3 to go with McMillan and Anthony. both have speed

    Secondary - i basically keep it the same



    many mocks I have noticed have us drafting QB in R1 and moving on from Tannehill

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunnicliffderek View Post
    Landry can win anywhere and win on his own. Landry has to be schemed open? its the OC job to scheme open your best playmaker but he doesn't need to be schemed open

    this whole concept that Landry has done everything the FO has asked or that he has grown up is bull. he still gets "emotional" penalties. I for one love that about him. I like football players that are passionate. penalties come with that and I'm good with it. nothing about him has changed. Landry of 2017 has been no different than Landry of 2016

    when thinking of what Landry contract will look like the best player to compare and map what he deserves is Doug Baldwin. his contract was 4 years 46M. Landry will get 12-13M and we need to give it to him



    QB position - my top choice is Lamar Jackson. Case Keenum gives me a little hope TH could be enough though I dont give the Vikings any chance of winning the SB with him. I cant rule out Lamar Jackson even though I actually think he goes #1 to the Browns

    RB position - my top choice is Saquon Barkley. reality is we likely stick with Drake. Drake cant be a bell cow. coming off injury but I would love to add Sproles. add Nick Wilson in the draft late

    WR position - I swap in Michael Gallup for Devante Parker. both would cost a R2 pick

    TE position - Julius cant stay healthy and for that reason he goes. swap Julius with Jimmy Graham. trade for Demetrius Harris. draft Christopher Herndon of Miami U in R7. he will likely sit all of 2018. keep Derby

    OL position - Quenton Nelson a real possibility. I think we attack OL in FA and go into the draft with it being the biggest need we erased

    DL position - Arden Key and Cam Wake would be a Bosa and Ingram feared combo until Wake retired. would be my R1 pick if we arent going to go QB

    LB position - Kiko is expensive + he sucks. we dont have anything but McMillan after him though. Roquan Smith and Malik Jefferson are possibilities but not ones that I am a fan of. give me Tremaine Edmunds and Kendall Joseph in rounds 2 and 3 to go with McMillan and Anthony. both have speed

    Secondary - i basically keep it the same



    many mocks I have noticed have us drafting QB in R1 and moving on from Tannehill
    I'm not one to throw stats around to prove a point or "win" an argument. I don't look at it that way. I take it as you seeing things differently and that is okay and I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. But you made me question what I said and I double checked, as I just had a feeling and didn't actually count penalties or anything like that. When I looked I saw that in 2016 he had 2 unsportsmanlike and 2 taunting (the dumbest penalty you can get IMO). In 2017 he has 1 unsportsmanlike and 0 taunting. He actually also has no illegal formation penalties vs 1 last year. Not a big deal there, but I think he has had less "stupid" penalties this year, especially when you add in the fact that this team was really not in the thick of the playoff hunt for much of the year, whereas last year, under a new coach when you are trying to make your best impression, we were in the playoff hunt after the first month when the Dolphins started to click. So I think he had more of an excuse to be weak and get stupid penalties out of frustration this year but still improved. Holding I can live with if he is blocking and makes a mistake as a WR on the edge blocking for his running back or whoever else. I don't like them of course, but they aren't stupid immature selfish penalties IMO. Offensive pass interference is fine, especially if he is bailing out his QB on a bad throw. Those aggression penalties are going to happen and I live with them. Here is where I found that info if you want to check: http://www.nflpenalties.com/player/j...hins?year=2016
    http://www.nflpenalties.com/player/j...hins?year=2017
    I hope to God those mocks are right. I'd like to move on or at least bring in competition for Tannehill. I don't watch many college games but I saw Baker Mayfield play a game and loved how he moves in the pocket. I didn't realize how well-known he was. I hadn't even heard his name but he jumped out at me. Do you think he is good? I just like the way he can avoid pressure but still keep his eyes downfield. As I said I only saw one game though. Actually about a half. Threw the ball fine with some anticipation (throwing guys open). Seemed like he could get air under the ball and drop it in too.
    A friend also mentioned Rosens to me. I have no idea who he is or who he plays for. Do you like him at all if he comes out? I trust this guy's opinion on QB's in particular. What do you think?
    Last edited by Dolphin North; 12-28-2017 at 09:19 AM.

  9. #159
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    getting penalized for unsportsmanlike or taunting is pretty hit or miss. he could have been flagged for it several times against the Chiefs and Bills

    Rosen is getting slammed for his leadership. it appears none of his teammates actually like him which reminds me of the movie Draft Day lol. he is really smart but severe maturity issues. talented but no way do I risk it on him with his off field. he is going to get crushed during the draft process if he comes out. both him and Darnold have said they don't want to be drafted by the Browns which alone would make me not want either one of them

    Mayfield has had several off field issues. I don't actually think he is good though. the preseason had him going in the middle of the draft and that's where I still value him. to me he is a career backup

  10. #160
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    schemed open still makes me laugh though. Julio Jones gets schemed open also

  11. #161
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    This is just an example of Landry being schemed open. It's tape of every single target that Landry had against the Charges in week 2. https://twitter.com/FourVerts/status/911270560969187329

    Yes WR's get schemed open often, that's what makes a great offense great like the Eagles and Rams this year. But if you compare the routes that Landry runs vs the routes that say Julio Jones or Antonio Brown run, you'll notice a massive difference in the separation they create by themselves. Landry can do it but not nearly as often or really on any deep routes.

    He is what he is. A WR with limited Athleticism that is dangerous when he gets the ball in his hands. That's why you see so many of his routes behind the chains and why he'll never have a high YPC. Try and remember the last deep ball he actually caught. I honestly can't think of one this year. The deepest play I can think of is the one handed catch against the Colts a few years ago.

    Welcome Back Sweet Prince

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunnicliffderek View Post
    getting penalized for unsportsmanlike or taunting is pretty hit or miss. he could have been flagged for it several times against the Chiefs and Bills

    Rosen is getting slammed for his leadership. it appears none of his teammates actually like him which reminds me of the movie Draft Day lol. he is really smart but severe maturity issues. talented but no way do I risk it on him with his off field. he is going to get crushed during the draft process if he comes out. both him and Darnold have said they don't want to be drafted by the Browns which alone would make me not want either one of them

    Mayfield has had several off field issues. I don't actually think he is good though. the preseason had him going in the middle of the draft and that's where I still value him. to me he is a career backup
    I think part of what he has going for him on penalties this year is that he is doing a lot less jawing after plays. BTW I once noticed Marino saying to Ross in the booth, "See why does he have to do that ****?" in a very angry looking way. Ross asked him "What?" because he doesn't see all of the stuff going on, but Marino then started to explain it to him, so you know the organization doesn't like that between the whistles stuff to that degree. It was rampant, like almost every play that went to him, catch or not. I think that just makes refs more trigger happy on those sorts of calls and you pick up penalties.
    Thanks, especially for your opinions on Mayfield and Rosens. I think Mayfield seems kind of immature or emotional too, although otehr players seem to thrive on his emotion from what I saw. but Rosens etc. saying they don't want to be drafted by Cleveland seems very immature. Of course they don't want to be drafted by Cleveland as almost nobody does, but most players are able to keep their mouths shut about it even if they think they have some weight to throw around. That's exactly the kind of thing that may sour some other teams on them and they need to be able to see that and exercise some discipline.
    Last edited by Dolphin North; 12-27-2017 at 12:01 AM.

  13. #163
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    Schemed open to me is a fancy word for running a pick play. The NFL needs to crack down on that.

    Rosen will likely be a top pick or maybe the top pick depending on how he does at the combine.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by KodytheKing View Post
    This is just an example of Landry being schemed open. It's tape of every single target that Landry had against the Charges in week 2. https://twitter.com/FourVerts/status/911270560969187329

    Yes WR's get schemed open often, that's what makes a great offense great like the Eagles and Rams this year. But if you compare the routes that Landry runs vs the routes that say Julio Jones or Antonio Brown run, you'll notice a massive difference in the separation they create by themselves. Landry can do it but not nearly as often or really on any deep routes.

    He is what he is. A WR with limited Athleticism that is dangerous when he gets the ball in his hands. That's why you see so many of his routes behind the chains and why he'll never have a high YPC. Try and remember the last deep ball he actually caught. I honestly can't think of one this year. The deepest play I can think of is the one handed catch against the Colts a few years ago.


    1:30 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2jeR4YHZGE

    If Matt Moore played all season you would see many Landry deep shots

    Landry is the best player on this team. people keep trying to downplay his talent calling him a slot. they also call Doug Baldwin a slot. he can win anywhere and has been the only week in week out consistent player and probably the best WR this franchise has ever had

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunnicliffderek View Post
    1:30 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2jeR4YHZGE

    If Matt Moore played all season you would see many Landry deep shots

    Landry is the best player on this team. people keep trying to downplay his talent calling him a slot. they also call Doug Baldwin a slot. he can win anywhere and has been the only week in week out consistent player and probably the best WR this franchise has ever had
    I can agree that Landry is the best player on offense, but Suh is clearly the best player on the team and its not even close.

    And don't even try to say Landry is the best WR in Phins history man. Please, just don't. Clayton, Duper, Moore are at the top and its not even close. Hell, even when Fryar was here he was outstanding. Oronde Gadsden probably had better hands than Landry. I still have a fondness for Chris Chambers as well. Landry is top 10, maybe even top 8, but no where close to the best ever. so wrong on so many levels.

    Landry is quick, not fast. Landry is a quick route guy, not a fly-pattern WR. He doesn't have the best hops on the team for jump balls, even given his size. If Parker had reached his stinking potential this year, Landry would not be resigned for what he is looking for, no way. Parker has flopped so far and that sucks for us.

    If we lose on Sunday, we could be in range for Saquon Barkley, Quenton Nelson, Connor Williams, Roquan Smith or, wait for it, DE Marcus Davenport. I think this guy is going to shoot up draft boards after the combine. Right now, I'd have no problem drafting him and he is in my top 3. He is 6'7" converted WR to DE and is a FREAK. I don't think he gets out of the top 15.

    I'm a big believer in controlling the line of scrimmage, and I think we should either go with 1. OL or 2. DL.

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