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View Poll Results: If the players disrespect the American flag?

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  • If only a couple players kneel I'll still support the team.

    0 0%
  • If any players kneels I'm done.

    0 0%
  • I don't care if they disrespect the flag.

    4 100.00%
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  1. #16
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    No worries Kyben. As an active duty commissioned officer, just wanted to ensure the convo didn't go down the route of a "privatized military."

  2. #17
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    I'm thinking it's an absolute certainty that NBA players are going to follow suit with National Anthem protests of some sort.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubsRule08 View Post
    Yeah...this thread is going to be closed soon.


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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    The Military is a private entitity and has the right to interpit and thusley punish for not adheering to it as they see fit

    The NBA is in turn its own a private entitity and has the right to interpit and thusley punish for not adheering to it as they see fit

    Seeing as the law does not state you must. Rather that you should. As long as the nfl and NBA make that same statement. That player should but are not forced. (Which as far as im concerned is the case ) they have done nothing not to follow the law.

    After that point. Its on the individual player to feel they should. Under the same rule or law the government uses. And obviously. Some have obviously come to the conclusion not to for whatever reasons.

    As far as im concerned. After exposing what the word should means. Your argument is that the a private entitiy in the NBA or NFL should run under the same rules and standards as the military. Is that the case.

    At this point. You want a players to be fired or court marshalled because they are not doing something they are not forced to do.

    I mean. You can do whatever you want. Boycott. Protest If you disagree. But it sounds like you want to get mad at the NFL or NBA. Who almost verbatim use the flag code. And now your trying to punish them for the individual choice of players to not stand. Your fair game to do that. To me though. It should be the players not the nba or nfl who receive your feelings
    I mentioned the military's interpretation of the flag code simply because of their obvious ties to the flag. I suspect most Americans associate the reverence they have in the symbol of the flag with the sacrifices the personnel of the military, and law enforcement groups etc. have made for the American society as a whole. I never said a player should be fired or court marshaled nor did I say professional sports should operate per military law. My actual point was to confirm what someone questioned regarding the 3rd poll question. Specifically, bending a knee is a gesture of disrespect toward the flag. My contention is not that the flag code, and violations therein, trigger a criminal offense and prosecution. Rather, it merely outlines various societal morals regarding the treatment and reverence of/to the flag. In actuality, the IEEE standards are not relevant in a legal setting which is the bench mark in American society for interpreting documents such as the US Flag Code. The Supreme Court has ruled the word "must" as the the term triggering obligation. The courts also determine the weight of other such words used in legal documents or contracts unless they are otherwise defined within the document. Regarding your last paragraph, I certainly do hold the professional associations accountable for activities their players are allowed to do. They have myriad rules which they rigorously enforce upon their players from headband usage to tucking in the shirts etc. I don't question the players right to bend the knee. I reject the associations' decision to allow it. By the way, I enjoy having this very relevant discussion and it's not my intention to offend or flame anyone.
    “Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, and others make it happen.” – Michael Jordan

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkonian View Post
    The United States flag code is clear on protocol for the National Anthem.

    36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem (a)Designation.—
    The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
    (b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
    (1) when the flag is displayed—
    (A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
    (B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
    (C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
    (2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.


    There is no point in debating it. Bending a knee is a direct and obvious show of disrespect to the American flag. There is no caveat for "extenuating Circumstances". I have no interest in melding politics with pro sports however, unfortunately, the players/teams are shoving this down my/our throats. I specifically made no mention or reference to any political parties or ideologies. The purpose of posting this thread is I'm interested to know how many around here are wiling to look the other way and ignore it or, not.
    The guy criticizing should really know the protocol that he's bashing others for...
    Last edited by effen5; 09-27-2017 at 11:32 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkonian View Post
    I mentioned the military's interpretation of the flag code simply because of their obvious ties to the flag. I suspect most Americans associate the reverence they have in the symbol of the flag with the sacrifices the personnel of the military, and law enforcement groups etc. have made for the American society as a whole. I never said a player should be fired or court marshaled nor did I say professional sports should operate per military law. My actual point was to confirm what someone questioned regarding the 3rd poll question. Specifically, bending a knee is a gesture of disrespect toward the flag. My contention is not that the flag code, and violations therein, trigger a criminal offense and prosecution. Rather, it merely outlines various societal morals regarding the treatment and reverence of/to the flag. In actuality, the IEEE standards are not relevant in a legal setting which is the bench mark in American society for interpreting documents such as the US Flag Code. The Supreme Court has ruled the word "must" as the the term triggering obligation. The courts also determine the weight of other such words used in legal documents or contracts unless they are otherwise defined within the document. Regarding your last paragraph, I certainly do hold the professional associations accountable for activities their players are allowed to do. They have myriad rules which they rigorously enforce upon their players from headband usage to tucking in the shirts etc. I don't question the players right to bend the knee. I reject the associations' decision to allow it. By the way, I enjoy having this very relevant discussion and it's not my intention to offend or flame anyone.
    Prior to the start of the 2016 NFL regular season, Kaepernick and Boyer met to discuss the anthem protest. As a result of that meeting, Kaepernick stopped sitting on the bench during the anthem. Instead, he adopted a new, but now well-known, gesture: taking a knee as most of his teammates stood alongside him. One of Kaepernick’s teammates, safety Eric Reid, joined him in kneeling during the anthem. In an op-ed for the New York Times published Monday afternoon, Reid explained that Boyer changed his and Kaepernick’s minds about the specific pose used in protest. “We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture,” Reid wrote. “I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.”

    Dropping to one knee, in most settings, is seen as a respectful gesture. In religions around the world, people kneel during prayer; it’s widely considered a symbol of reverence in almost any setting—except when it has happened during the national anthem at a sporting event in the past year. When people, including the president, declare that players who take a knee during the anthem are disrespecting the troops, the flag, or the country, they’re speaking out against a gesture that a Green Beret helped popularize.
    Yeah, kneeing is not disrespecting the flag at all. Actually when Kaep first started protesting, he used to sit on the bench. That was disrespectful. Then he talked to Boyer (green beret) and talked about how he can protest respectfully which is how the whole kneeing came about.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttman73 View Post
    I don't like basketball enough to be insulted by the players and continue to watch.
    If they want to make a statement, go back to your neighborhoods, donate your money.
    Work with troubled youth - work with the police department.
    Kneeling for the flag, the anthem that gives you everything you have is stupid and insulting, especially to those of us who served and still serve our country.


    As far as the NFL, I'm ok with what the Bears did on Sunday, locking arms. In fact, if I'm the NFL commissioner that's what I'd recommend. Nothing wrong with solidarity, but if they want to take a knee, then I'll take one on them too. Here is the difference, I don't need professional sports to earn a living, they just provide entertainment.
    These athletes, need us, the fans to pay their salaries. Somebody better figure it out quick.
    It's so funny, that you say this because I was talking to a friend of mine who played with Kaep last year for the 9ers and he told me anything positive Kaep does will get zero publicity because it doesn't stir up enough controversies and he's right.

    Look at how much Kaep has done for our communities... he's donated what almost close to a million dollars in 100k increments to charities all over the country and all people are *****ing about is him kneeing, not all the people hes trying to help.

  8. #23
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    If Kaepernick has done something useful, positive for his community or really any community in need then that's fantastic, but I don't think too many people know about it.
    My point is, was ... if not for the United States of America, which to me is partially symbolized by the Flag and Anthem, most of the athletes are just regular, working class people, not multi-millionaires.
    You want to change something in America, invest your time, efforts and money in your community.
    Don't just protest the system that allows you to live in wealth and luxury.
    1985 Bears
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    2010 Blackhawks
    1991 Bulls

    1981 Sting

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttman73:31873766
    If Kaepernick has done something useful, positive for his community or really any community in need then that's fantastic, but I don't think too many people know about it.
    My point is, was ... if not for the United States of America, which to me is partially symbolized by the Flag and Anthem, most of the athletes are just regular, working class people, not multi-millionaires.
    You want to change something in America, invest your time, efforts and money in your community.
    Don't just protest the system that allows you to live in wealth and luxury.
    I don't think they're protesting capitalism, they're protesting what may be broken in the system itself. They do invest time, money, and effort in the community, but if the system that regulates the community itself is broken, well to individuals that are part of that system, then that also needs to be noticed and be known.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttman73 View Post
    If Kaepernick has done something useful, positive for his community or really any community in need then that's fantastic, but I don't think too many people know about it.
    My point is, was ... if not for the United States of America, which to me is partially symbolized by the Flag and Anthem, most of the athletes are just regular, working class people, not multi-millionaires.
    You want to change something in America, invest your time, efforts and money in your community.
    Don't just protest the system that allows you to live in wealth and luxury.
    What I find even more disturbing is the NFL has raked in over $7 billion of taxpayer money over the last two decades. They've found loop holes in the tax code to fund their massive projects via tax exempt municipal bonds which are typically reserved solely for public use projects eg. bridges, roadways etc. Meanwhile, studies have shown the local communities are actually worse off because of it. The NFL made 13 billions in profit in 2016. The possibilities are endless for the NFL with their vast resources for what other things they could be doing to support their cause in place of offending millions of Americans by disrespecting the flag.
    “Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, and others make it happen.” – Michael Jordan

  11. #26
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    RIP to this forum. Its dead.
    KARL JOSEPH CREW

  12. #27
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    The Bulls are bad, Garpax is a joke, not much to talk about
    1985 Bears
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttman73 View Post
    If Kaepernick has done something useful, positive for his community or really any community in need then that's fantastic, but I don't think too many people know about it.
    My point is, was ... if not for the United States of America, which to me is partially symbolized by the Flag and Anthem, most of the athletes are just regular, working class people, not multi-millionaires.
    You want to change something in America, invest your time, efforts and money in your community.
    Don't just protest the system that allows you to live in wealth and luxury.
    Again, that's what my friend said. Theres no publicity around Kaep of all the good fortune he has done because it's not controversial.

    And I used to live close to Briggs, and his mom would invite me to a lot of his charities. I've met a lot of the Bears players over the past through 55 and they've all given back to the community one way or another. But the president doesn't give a **** about that, he only gives a **** about what he gives a **** about... nonsense.

    I mean look what Anquon Boldin is doing right now...He retired after signing with with the Bills and is focusing just on humanitarian work. Who knows about that stuff though.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttman73 View Post
    If Kaepernick has done something useful, positive for his community or really any community in need then that's fantastic, but I don't think too many people know about it.
    My point is, was ... if not for the United States of America, which to me is partially symbolized by the Flag and Anthem, most of the athletes are just regular, working class people, not multi-millionaires.
    You want to change something in America, invest your time, efforts and money in your community.
    Don't just protest the system that allows you to live in wealth and luxury.
    The point of the protest is that these players are using their platform to speak up for those who don't have a voice. These are not "spoiled brats" like some people I've seen describe them (I know you didn't). A dialogue has to start somewhere. And they have successfully done that. It's not about the flag or the anthem. They have explicitly said this. It's about racial inequality.

    Kaep has continued donating since his initial protest and does a lot for the community. So far he's donated $800K and his goal is to reach $1M.

  15. #30
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    Why in the heck would anybody care what somebody else is doing as long as they're not hurting or killing anybody, If somebody feel like they're disrespecting the flag it's there business,it boggles my mind at the out cry over this. I could care less what the next man or woman is doing as long as they're not physically attacking me or my family, if everybody stayed in there own lane our society would be in a lot better place,it just blows my mind how some people are butt hurt over other peoples actions or comments that's not criminal. There is absolutely nothing disrespectful about what they're doing, I can't even count how many times I was at a game and I didn't stand for the anthem and many others in attendance didn't stand and this was many years before Kaep started his protest, I never got any funny looks from anybody in attendance for not standing. Let's face it our country has many issues, My Dad is a proud Vietnam Vet and he doesn't have a problem with the protest, he feels like the people that has issues do not really know the real meaning of our American flag. This thread needs to be shut down, this is a sports forum not politics, this is going to turn into back and forth opinions and thoughts about something that has nothing to do with sports.

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