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View Poll Results: 2nd Best Player?

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • Chris Paul

    0 0%
  • James Harden

    1 2.94%
  • Giannis Antetokounmpo

    0 0%
  • Russell Westbrook

    1 2.94%
  • Kevin Durant

    18 52.94%
  • Kawhi Leonard

    9 26.47%
  • Anthony Davis

    0 0%
  • Stephen Curry

    5 14.71%
  • Demarcus Cousins

    0 0%
  • Draymond Green

    0 0%
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  1. #1
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    PSD NBA Player Power Rankings- #2

    Figured I'd keep this going to liven this place a bit

    1.) Lebron James
    2.)

    I know the guy who did this before had a system to elect future players but feel free to post suggestions on who should be available to pick next on players not available for selection

  2. #2
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    Poll closes in 3 days

  3. #3
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    Argument here is for Curry or Durant as they should be #2 and #3. Should it be Durant who is simply the better basketball player, or Curry who has the much larger effect on winning and making everyone around him better. Kawhi should not be in the conversation yet, until the #4 spot. He still has a lot more to prove to surpass both Curry and Durant.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allphakenny1 View Post
    Argument here is for Curry or Durant as they should be #2 and #3. Should it be Durant who is simply the better basketball player, or Curry who has the much larger effect on winning and making everyone around him better. Kawhi should not be in the conversation yet, until the #4 spot. He still has a lot more to prove to surpass both Curry and Durant.
    Yeah KD for me but I fully agree Currys ceiling when it comes to outcome is higher than KDs.

  5. #5
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    For me, its 2) Durant, 3) Curry

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allphakenny1 View Post
    Argument here is for Curry or Durant as they should be #2 and #3. Should it be Durant who is simply the better basketball player, or Curry who has the much larger effect on winning and making everyone around him better. Kawhi should not be in the conversation yet, until the #4 spot. He still has a lot more to prove to surpass both Curry and Durant.
    Why not tho? He's got a legit argument in anyway you want to measure it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allphakenny1 View Post
    Argument here is for Curry or Durant as they should be #2 and #3. Should it be Durant who is simply the better basketball player, or Curry who has the much larger effect on winning and making everyone around him better. Kawhi should not be in the conversation yet, until the #4 spot. He still has a lot more to prove to surpass both Curry and Durant.
    Here's a classic example of taking an individual's success out of the context of their team. Kawhi has proven plenty, whether it's winning finals MVP and beating the Heatles, or effectively taking it to the Warriors as the only superstar on his team. That's more than Durant has proven, even though I still voted him in as the second-best player after LeBron.

  8. #8
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    Lol there's a reason why the Warriors are demonstratively better when Curry is on the court rather than KD - as great as he is - and it is as simple as that. The Finals were a great situation for KD - but Curry was the best player in the playoffs for arguably the best team in history. 0 votes at #2. You guys are lost.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Lol there's a reason why the Warriors are demonstratively better when Curry is on the court rather than KD - as great as he is - and it is as simple as that. The Finals were a great situation for KD - but Curry was the best player in the playoffs for arguably the best team in history. 0 votes at #2. You guys are lost.
    Are you really gonna throw a fit about Curry being ranked lower than KD? I mean it's pretty close - and their playoff numbers are pretty close. I'd give the edge to KD in that situation. He was more efficient offensively and better defensively. KD clearly took command as the primary option and "go-getter" in the finals as well.

    And KD has the regular season edge over Curry. He was more efficient offensively and better defensively.

    The Cavs were once "better" with Delly on the court than Kyrie for an entire season - doesn't mean jack **** about who is the better player. Curry's familiarity with the system undoubtedly helps in that aspect, considering KD has only spent one year there (actually less than a year when you factor in games missed). Context is EVERYTHING with impact/on-off numbers and you can't simply gloss over it while declaring Curry is better because of that one thing.

    I wouldn't be upset if people picked Curry over KD, but your reaction towards people picking KD over Steph is pretty mind-boggling and I think there's probably some bias involved there.


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  10. #10
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    IMO,

    1. LeBron
    2. KD
    3. Kawhi/Steph
    4. Steph/Kawhi

    The fact that Steph is even considered at as high as #2 overall is testament to his insane impact on offense, considering all 3 other players (Bron, KD, Kawhi) are ELITE two-way players on both ends of the court. Elite offensively, elite defensively. Steph is not elite defensively - yet I would not even be mad if he was voted in at #2. Again, testament to his offensive impact #'s and value on the court.


    BELIEVELAND WE CHAMPS!!! 2016!!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Are you really gonna throw a fit about Curry being ranked lower than KD? I mean it's pretty close - and their playoff numbers are pretty close. I'd give the edge to KD in that situation. He was more efficient offensively and better defensively. KD clearly took command as the primary option and "go-getter" in the finals as well.

    And KD has the regular season edge over Curry. He was more efficient offensively and better defensively.

    The Cavs were once "better" with Delly on the court than Kyrie for an entire season - doesn't mean jack **** about who is the better player. Curry's familiarity with the system undoubtedly helps in that aspect, considering KD has only spent one year there (actually less than a year when you factor in games missed). Context is EVERYTHING with impact/on-off numbers and you can't simply gloss over it while declaring Curry is better because of that one thing.

    I wouldn't be upset if people picked Curry over KD, but your reaction towards people picking KD over Steph is pretty mind-boggling and I think there's probably some bias involved there.
    Context is very much taken into account with advanced on/off metrics.

    KD was more efficient offensively than Curry in the Finals, and better on D than Curry as well (those #'s being reflected in the aggregate playoff stats). That statement goes for KD over Lebron in the Finals/playoffs/regular-season as well mind you. However, like the rest of the post-season, the bulk of the attention in the Finals was still primed on Curry, and Curry was unquestionably the teams driving force/best player in all of the previous series (KD missing time on the run as well). If the team has an internal playoff MVP, there is no question as to who earned it.

    In the regular season we saw Curry sort of over-compensate for KD's arrival and just tried to let him do his thing in the early going. Part of this is just his nature as a PG, and part of it was him probably knowing that they were going to win the vast majority of the games in the regular season regardless and it was best to assimilate KD quicker than later. When KD went down, the switch was hit and we saw Curry and the team reach a higher level (rattling off their longest winning streak, etc). When KD returned, they found a way to co-exist much more seamlessly with Curry now being the driving force, and that continued through the playoffs (until the Finals where the Cavs made a more concerted effort to stop Curry... which did not work in the slightest... but much credit to KD as he stomped all over them for it).

    Long story short, the b2b and unanimous MVP in his peak is being highly underestimated if I click on "View Poll results" and there are 4 players garnering votes, with none of them being for the guy who garners the most attention from opposing coaches in the NBA for the past 3 seasons and was the driving force for maybe the best team in history.
    Last edited by tredigs; 09-18-2017 at 11:24 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    IMO,

    1. LeBron
    2. KD
    3. Kawhi/Steph
    4. Steph/Kawhi

    The fact that Steph is even considered at as high as #2 overall is testament to his insane impact on offense, considering all 3 other players (Bron, KD, Kawhi) are ELITE two-way players on both ends of the court. Elite offensively, elite defensively. Steph is not elite defensively - yet I would not even be mad if he was voted in at #2. Again, testament to his offensive impact #'s and value on the court.
    There were very few stretches where Kawhi and especially Lebron were ELITE defensively last season. Kawhi took a massive step back on that end (mostly due to his workload offensively obviously... but it is what it is... we don't ever think about that for Curry), and Lebron is just not a high impact defender at this point by and large. He certainly was not able to slow down Durant in the slightest (highest shooting efficiency in NBA Finals history from KD along with an ultra efficient 27/9/8 from Steph). So, what exactly is the criteria for this supposed 2 way dominance?

  13. #13
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    Was going to vote KD but he got caught making multiple twitter accounts to defend himself and got caught because he posted on his main account without knowing lol. He's so damn sensitive and soft, can't stand him.

    https://s26.postimg.org/a20wgmf49/20969116_474690526257462_6125363099198291968_n.jpg

    Looks good in that wine and gold, CavsNation were coming!!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Context is very much taken into account with advanced on/off metrics.
    Some context, sure. But not all. It's literally impossible to quantify the fact that KD was introduced to a new system, compared to Steph who had already played in that system for years. Draymond had better advanced on/off metrics than KD too - hell, Iggy wasn't THAT far behind KD on RPM. I don't think it's entirely fair to KD especially considering his RPM was higher in each of the last two full seasons (2013-14 and 2015-16) than it was this past year. Not Steph-high, but still higher regardless.

    Even so, the argument that player X has a higher RPM than player Y so he's better is a very poor one when player Y has been more efficient offensively (in the past year) and considerably better defensively.

    KD was more efficient offensively then Curry in the Finals, and better on D than Curry as well (those #'s being reflected in the aggregate playoff stats). That statement goes for KD over Lebron in the Finals/playoffs as well. However, like the rest of the post-season, the bulk of the attention in the Finals was still primed on Curry, and Curry was unquestionably the teams driving force/best player in all of the previous series (KD missing time on the run as well). If the team has an internal playoff MVP, there is no question as to who earned it.
    I can't speak for the Blazers/Jazz/Spurs, but I feel I can definitely speak for the Cavs on their defensive philosophy. Initially we gave the attention to all the shooters (particularly Steph and Klay, but mostly Steph) since it had some success in the previous finals. KD ripped that apart. Then we TRIED to shift that focus to KD. We TRIED to trap KD and hedge hard on PnRs, we tried shifting the defense in KD's direction, and he absolutely ANNIHILATED us. Similar to how Paul George did in the 1st round (but obviously much more difficult vs. KD), we couldn't trap him at all. His length and passing destroyed any attempt to give him extra attention.

    The simple fact of the matter is, we were better off sticking one defender on KD and living/dying with the results. You can't double that man on GS because he doesn't force turnovers, not nearly to the extent that Steph will.

    Yes, we mostly gave Steph our attention - and it's not because Steph is just the better player. It's because Steph is more prone to turnovers, mistakes, bad shots, etc..., whereas KD was just more unstoppable. Why double him and give all our attention to him when he's gonna score anyway or give open shots to the other deadly shooters. Double/trap Steph and the ball might not find its way to others as easily.

    Long story short, the b2b and unanimous MVP in his peak is being highly underestimated if I click on "View Poll results" and there is 4 players garnering votes, and none of them being for the guy who garners the most attention from opposing coaches in the NBA for the past 3 seasons.
    Idk... I don't see it as him being underestimated. I mean, LeBron is pretty much universally regarded as the best player in the world, but from an actual statistical and basketball standpoint KD, Steph, and Kawhi are at that dude's heels. I mean, I won't shoot down a dude if he claimed KD was better, even if I disagree. So just because KD has 6 votes and Steph none doesn't mean people don't think they're extremely close.
    Last edited by Vee-Rex; 09-18-2017 at 11:49 AM.


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  15. #15
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    Good post Rex, I'm in line with the vast majority of it. What you're underestimating is that the gameplan for the vast majority of teams for the past 4 seasons has been on Curry - then figure out the rest later. That did not seem to change nearly as much as I anticipated with KD's arrival. Granted, the Cavs attempted it eventually, but yes it was a fruitless attempt and just opened up the shooting more (KD is not a better playmaker than Curry by any stretch, but he's a smart 7 footer who can make the right and even difficult pass).

    The Curry dismissal is much more than this threads 12 votes or whatever pathetic amount PSD has on it, it's my take on his perception by the media/public at large recently. Those menial votes echo my sentiments that he is being highly underestimated of late. Imo it is extremely close between Kawhi/KD/Curry AND Lebron, and again despite public sentiment of late, I consider Westbrook/Harden in that 2nd tier.

    Edit: Also, again that 2-way dominance mantra is thrown around far too flippantly based on rep. I see being an effective cog on a team defense as the far more valuable/tangible/reliable trait, which is what all 4 display regularly.
    Last edited by tredigs; 09-18-2017 at 12:07 PM.

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