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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    then the same is true for the guy who sleeps with a trashed lady and gets accused of sexual assault. I'm not blaming the victim... But hell take some responsibility.
    Uhhh, then can't women be accused of sexual assault and rape?

    There was this annoying red head in college. She liked me, she was annoying as ****. I got drunk and blacked out. I was told we made out and I woke up naked next to her.

    I still have no idea if we ever had sex, but I assume we didn't.

    Is that also assault?



    No.



    My friends made fun of me, I put myself in the position and had to deal with a clinger who I had no interest in who now, somehow, thought I had interest in.

    Was I raped? Do I get to file charges against her for taking advantage of me?
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 09-13-2017 at 10:54 AM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Uhhh, then can't women be accused of sexual assault and rape?

    There was this annoying red head in college. She liked me, she was annoying as ****. I got drunk and blacked out. I was told we made out and I woke up naked next to her.

    I still have no idea if we ever had sex, but I assume we didn't.

    Is that also assault?



    No.



    My friends made fun of me, I put myself in the position and had to deal with a clinger who I had no interest in who now, somehow, thought I had interest in.

    Was I raped? Do I get to file charges against her for taking advantage of me?
    You are still putting yourself at risk. You as a boy want to make a false accusation of rape.. go right ahead. You want girls to take responsibility for what can happen when they get smashed.. You don't want boys to take responsibility for what they do when they get smashed. So you are simply a hypocrite. That's OK.

    You want to pretend there is an equality in your supposition above. But there isn't just like guys aren't worried that girls are going to have sex with them when they are unconscious. You and others have even said TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.... and you put all the responsibility on the girl side. This is a common viewpoint and it's ****ing tarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    No, I'm saying it's impossible to know how many are falsely convicted, but we know it happens.
    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...211689741.html

    .
    BUT it';s absolutely possible to say its less likely that getting convicted if you actually did it. That's what they said. You took issue with that and now you are trying to change the meaning... But yes Knowing the actual number you can;t

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    then the same is true for the guy who sleeps with a trashed lady and gets accused of sexual assault. I'm not blaming the victim... But hell take some responsibility.
    now you're getting it..

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    You are still putting yourself at risk. You as a boy want to make a false accusation of rape.. go right ahead. You want girls to take responsibility for what can happen when they get smashed.. You don't want boys to take responsibility for what they do when they get smashed. So you are simply a hypocrite. That's OK.

    You want to pretend there is an equality in your supposition above. But there isn't just like guys aren't worried that girls are going to have sex with them when they are unconscious. You and others have even said TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.... and you put all the responsibility on the girl side. This is a common viewpoint and it's ****ing tarded.
    who is talking about having sex with a person who is passed out?

    The biggest gripe people have with this is, the thousands of kids a weekend who go to a party, hook up, and one of them regrets it, this gives an easy, promotable way, to throw accusations out there, versus chalking it up to stupidity.

    At no point, has anyone here, said if a crime is actually committed, should anything but throwing the book at the perp happen.

    If you are robbed at gunpoint, in a terrible neighborhood, yes, we blame the person who committed the robbery. They receive all the punishment, 100000%. But if the victim didn't need to be in that neighborhood, they indeed share some of the blame. If they make it out unscathed, we all this a learning opportunity. Common sense is being totally ignored by you dude. Don't go wandering into bad situations then act shocked when bad **** happens.

    Going to a party, and getting hammered doesn't mean you will be raped. It doesn't mean anything, except you have just put yourself in a vulnerable position. What happens next isn't your fault, but it is your fault you just put yourself in a position where you can't defend yourself, or leave, if something happens.


    With all this being said, IF this makes it easier, for people (women, since men don't come forward with this) to come forward, and it helps victims of rape, then by all means, it needs to be done.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Going to a party, and getting hammered doesn't mean you will be raped. It doesn't mean anything, except you have just put yourself in a vulnerable position. What happens next isn't your fault, but it is your fault you just put yourself in a position where you can't defend yourself, or leave, if something happens.
    .
    Going to a party, and getting hammered and having sex with someone doesn't mean you will be accused of something. It doesn't mean anything, except you have just put yourself in a vulnerable position. What happens next isn't your fault, but it is your fault you just put yourself in a position where you can't defend yourself, or have to leave, if something happens.
    Last edited by flips333; 09-13-2017 at 12:10 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  7. #97
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    You keep talking about the problems associated someone who commits a particular crime.... falsely accusing someone of assault.

    You all keep talking about the responsibility women have when they get drunk and put themselves in a position to have another crime committed... Assault.

    I refuse to believe two intelligent people, Hawk and Jeff, can not see the flip side of this risk responsibility ratio.




    I'm with you I think ladies should protect themselves. I'm with you I think title 9 investigations should have equal consideration for the accused's rights. Please come with me and accept that men who get hammered and **** hammered chicks have some responsibility for the risk they put themselves in.
    Last edited by flips333; 09-13-2017 at 12:16 PM. Reason: I'm such a ****in nerd.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    It's odd that you would state this with such conviction and confidence.....it's something you couldn't know.
    Incorrect. My point is:

    1. It is incredibly hard to convict someone of rape or sexual assault.

    https://www.rainn.org/statistics/cri...justice-system

    2.2% of reported rapes end in a conviction. .07% of estimated total rapes (reported and unreported) end in a conviction.

    2. Unless all of those are falsely accused convictions, the rate of falsely accused being convicted is lower.


    Anecdotally, my office handled rape and sexual assault trials and we did not get a single conviction on a he said/she said date rape scenario. Not one. As someone with experience, the idea that a ton of people who are being falsely accused are getting locked up is hilariously wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    So then the question becomes. Are any accusations that don't involve something like this not actually assaults? What constitutes assault (genuinely asking)?
    There are a ton of definitions for all the various types of sexual assaults, from sexual penetration, aggravated sexual contact, etc.

    But the main problem is what actually constitutes evidence for a rape? (I apologize to anyone if it gets a little graphic).

    Let's look at some evidence. If the victim gets a sexual assault trauma examination done within 24 hours afterwards, and they find say semen in the vagina. Is that by itself proof of rape? Nope. That's proof only that they had sex. Suppose they find vaginal tearing or abrasions. Is that by itself proof or rape? Nope. Many people have rough sex where the can occur. Suppose they find bruises or marks on the body? Is that by itself proof of rape? Nope. Again, rough sex.

    So when it gets down to it, there really isn't any evidence we get that is the smoking gun "that's rape!", usually it's OK they had sex, which the alleged rapist usually admits to but that it was consensual.

    So if all you have is evidence they had sex, which they both agree happened, and one saying they were raped and one saying they weren't, and the legal standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, how do you get a conviction?

  9. #99
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    DeVos to overhaul ‘shameful’ Obama-era campus sexual-assault regulations

    ^To me, yes if both parties are hammered they put themselves in an iffy situation all around. Both need to use better judgement but neither is guilty of a crime (assuming we re saying both hammered/consenting while hammered). If the next day the woman decides she regrets it and screams rape she is a problem however because false accusations hurt everyone.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    You are still putting yourself at risk. You as a boy want to make a false accusation of rape.. go right ahead. You want girls to take responsibility for what can happen when they get smashed.. You don't want boys to take responsibility for what they do when they get smashed. So you are simply a hypocrite. That's OK.

    You want to pretend there is an equality in your supposition above. But there isn't just like guys aren't worried that girls are going to have sex with them when they are unconscious. You and others have even said TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.... and you put all the responsibility on the girl side. This is a common viewpoint and it's ****ing tarded.
    Considering that a man has no control over his reproduction rights after ejaculation, I would be worried about some chick getting knocked up if I was passed out drunk.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    ^To me, yes if both parties are hammered they put themselves in an iffy situation all around. Both need to use better judgement but neither is guilty of a crime (assuming we re saying both hammered/consenting while hammered). If the next day the woman decides she regrets it and screams rape she is a problem however because false accusations hurt everyone.
    At least in the military, if both parties are intoxicated beyond the limit where they can legally give consent, it is not rape.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    ^To me, yes if both parties are hammered they put themselves in an iffy situation all around. Both need to use better judgement but neither is guilty of a crime (assuming we re saying both hammered/consenting while hammered). If the next day the woman decides she regrets it and screams rape she is a problem however because false accusations hurt everyone.
    At least in the military, if both parties are intoxicated beyond the limit where they can legally give consent, it is not rape.
    I guess I was just assuming that's the case all around (why would it be rape if both are in same condition and consenting?). I was trying to point out what I thought hawk and Jeffry were getting at. Responsibility here goes both ways and putting yourself in that position is part of the problem (either way).

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Going to a party, and getting hammered and having sex with someone doesn't mean you will be accused of something. It doesn't mean anything, except you have just put yourself in a vulnerable position. What happens next isn't your fault, but it is your fault you just put yourself in a position where you can't defend yourself, or have to leave, if something happens.
    see, easy, right?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    You keep talking about the problems associated someone who commits a particular crime.... falsely accusing someone of assault.

    You all keep talking about the responsibility women have when they get drunk and put themselves in a position to have another crime committed... Assault.

    I refuse to believe two intelligent people, Hawk and Jeff, can not see the flip side of this risk responsibility ratio.


    I'm with you I think ladies should protect themselves. I'm with you I think title 9 investigations should have equal consideration for the accused's rights. Please come with me and accept that men who get hammered and **** hammered chicks have some responsibility for the risk they put themselves in
    .
    I absolutely do. The more I think about it, the more I am fine with the advanced measures being taken.

    People just always view the victim as someone who was just walking around and bam, bad **** happened. Many times, the victim sets themselves up for bad things to happen. That is all I mean with this

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Incorrect. My point is:

    1. It is incredibly hard to convict someone of rape or sexual assault.

    https://www.rainn.org/statistics/cri...justice-system

    2.2% of reported rapes end in a conviction. .07% of estimated total rapes (reported and unreported) end in a conviction.

    2. Unless all of those are falsely accused convictions, the rate of falsely accused being convicted is lower.


    Anecdotally, my office handled rape and sexual assault trials and we did not get a single conviction on a he said/she said date rape scenario. Not one. As someone with experience, the idea that a ton of people who are being falsely accused are getting locked up is hilariously wrong.



    There are a ton of definitions for all the various types of sexual assaults, from sexual penetration, aggravated sexual contact, etc.

    But the main problem is what actually constitutes evidence for a rape? (I apologize to anyone if it gets a little graphic).

    Let's look at some evidence. If the victim gets a sexual assault trauma examination done within 24 hours afterwards, and they find say semen in the vagina. Is that by itself proof of rape? Nope. That's proof only that they had sex. Suppose they find vaginal tearing or abrasions. Is that by itself proof or rape? Nope. Many people have rough sex where the can occur. Suppose they find bruises or marks on the body? Is that by itself proof of rape? Nope. Again, rough sex.

    So when it gets down to it, there really isn't any evidence we get that is the smoking gun "that's rape!", usually it's OK they had sex, which the alleged rapist usually admits to but that it was consensual.

    So if all you have is evidence they had sex, which they both agree happened, and one saying they were raped and one saying they weren't, and the legal standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, how do you get a conviction?
    You are 100% right. It's VERY hard to convict someone of rape. On the flip side, the simple accusation of rape can ruin lives. It's a very destructive action all together.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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