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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    England has had 55 fatal police shootings in the last 24 years..... The United States had 59 in the first 24 days of 2015.

    Look at any of the police brutality statistics and it will tell you all you need to know. Officers are not properly vetted, educated, or trained. These are people being given dangerous weapons, and they don't have the knowledge or expertise to use them properly.

    I mean 1% of the departments requires more than a high school education? And these people are supposed to know how when to use lethal force, and when not to?

    No. They've proven that it needs an overhaul. The rotten Apple argument no longer holds water when there has been so much violence from the boys in blue.
    England police officers don't usually have guns right? I mean that probably helps

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Where do we rank in violence against officers? Not picking a fight, serious question.

    Intuitively, I'd think we rank highest in both. With our rights that go beyond most nations there's more opportunity for violence in general and against officers specifically. I'm pretty sure we have the most shootings from civilians. With that context - more violent crimes than other nations - I'd expect our officers to have more killings as well in response to the increased threats.

    I'm not sure if the data supports that though. That's just me logically thinking things out. I could be totally off.
    41 police officers were killed in the line of duty last year. Meanwhile there is on average over 400 killings by police officers every year.

    Couldn't find anything that mentioned violence against police officers, but there are 19 countries that don't arm their police.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    England police officers don't usually have guns right? I mean that probably helps
    Exactly. Because they've already made necessary changes.

    I'm not saying that we need to disarm our police, but cops kill 500 people a year and then they wonder why Bennett is afraid of them? It's common sense.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    If you're going to pay all the money to go through school, wouldn't you invest it for a job where you aren't putting your life on the line and if you do react to something you perceive as a real threat then the whole country might very well be poking and prodding through your entire life to publically shame you?
    Well pay is definitely part of the problem. Cops/EMT/fire rescue are payed like crap. I know a few EMTs that make $15-20/hour. Think in a possible 12 hour shift they make $240 and save 2-5 lives. Cops I know aren't paid much higher.

    America has quite the inverse relationship from pay/risk when it comes to employment.

    Crap most my friends are cops, teachers, firefighters; and the all make less than me, the golf coach.

    PROCESSING

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    If you're going to pay all the money to go through school, wouldn't you invest it for a job where you aren't putting your life on the line and if you do react to something you perceive as a real threat then the whole country might very well be poking and prodding through your entire life to publically shame you?
    There is a study somewhere out there that shows that the more educated a cop is, the less likely they are to react negatively in that situation. More educated cops tend to be better decision makers, better with critical thinking, and better at conflict resolution.

    The only reason the microscope is stuck on the police right now is because we can't go one day without them doing something extremely questionable.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamburger View Post
    It's not a different issue. High levels of black gun violence is linked with police culture in black communities.

    Also, all three founders of BLM are intersectional socialists.
    Commies! Mike McCarthy! Red red red, red rum!

    Lol back off the ledge and take off at least some of that tinfoil bud. This society has plenty of socialistic programs running already. Many too the benefit of the overall populace.

    We could probably use more given the rise in income inequality we are dealing with.


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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    41 police officers were killed in the line of duty last year. Meanwhile there is on average over 400 killings by police officers every year.

    Couldn't find anything that mentioned violence against police officers, but there are 19 countries that don't arm their police.
    If black Americans committed the same level of serious violent crime as Asian Americans (on average) they would experience the same level of policing that Asian Americans experience.

    Hint, Asian Americans are rarely shot and killed by police. (Both outright and per capita). Why? Because they haven't crafted a warzone street culture comparable to the wild west.

    Gun violence within black neighborhoods is the number one issue. It's the #1 reason black people experience more police contact. If BLM wants to minimize police contact and save black lives they w focus on ending warzone street culture. That's not their goal though. Their goal is to "abolish the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy".

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Exactly. Because they've already made necessary changes.

    I'm not saying that we need to disarm our police, but cops kill 500 people a year and then they wonder why Bennett is afraid of them? It's common sense.
    What should the number be though? 500 certainly seems high but at the end of the day some killings are justified. I think we can all agree there. If 10 guys decide they're gonna shoot up a city and the cops kill all 10 then that's a good think but it's still going to count in that 500 number that you're holding up a negative. Intuitively, based on a lot of the cases I've seen go viral, my perception is that it should be lower but I think you can agree that bad cops get more discussion than good cops. So my perception is based off of a biased sample. In reality, I can't tell you how bad 500 killings in a year is without some context on what the more reasonable number would be.

    And that's a very murky thing to figure out because justified killings vs. not justified isn't usually a black and white issue. And then you can even break down the unjustified group to "malicious" or "genuine mistake". Inevitably, in that line of work, you're going to have cases where a cop truly and genuinely perceives something wrong. Maybe a guy pulls a knife an din hindsight when you break it down the attacker wasn't close enough that a fatal shot was needed. But in the moment those are very real gray areas where it's tough, IMO, to say an officer did anything "wrong".


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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    There is a study somewhere out there that shows that the more educated a cop is, the less likely they are to react negatively in that situation. More educated cops tend to be better decision makers, better with critical thinking, and better at conflict resolution.

    The only reason the microscope is stuck on the police right now is because we can't go one day without them doing something extremely questionable.
    I'm certainly not arguing that more education wouldn't help. I'm just questioning how many people would pay for all that education to be a cop. I'd think a large part of how they get the necessary numbers for their workforce is that it does carry lower requirements. If you start making it tougher to be a cop I think people might choose to invest those resources in other, less dangerous careers. I don't know to what degree that would be the case though but I'd be very surprised if there wasn't some correlation there.

    Also, as I said before, there are over a million cops. If you pick any profession I can guarantee that if you dug you wouldn't go a day without finding some questionable stuff. The stakes are obviously much higher with cops though due to their line of work so it's more publicized, and for good reason.

    I'm certainly not justifying their wrongdoing by pointing that out, just adding some perspective. And just know too that, as much cop violence as you see, it's only a small fraction of all the wrongdoing that actually takes place among a million people. There's so much bad that happens that doesn't ever go viral.


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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Exactly. Because they've already made necessary changes.

    I'm not saying that we need to disarm our police, but cops kill 500 people a year and then they wonder why Bennett is afraid of them? It's common sense.
    500 unjustifiable killings or just 500 in total.

    Given the sheer size of the US population that doesn't seem incredibly alarming to me if that's the case.

    Again I think it comes down to transparency. They should have a heavy check on them since as a society we give them heavy exceptional powers our citizens don't have.

    Transparency is the key. If we have that, then on calls they will need to be on their best behavior and we can root out the bad apples.

    They should be held accountable, but we also shouldn't judge each cop by those that make the news/social media.

    Part of the click bait society we live in unfortunately tends to trend towards sensationalism and leaving out the commonplace to go unnoticed.

    We need to stress thinking critically about things much more in our educational system.

    Too many foolish idiots in the world, that's the real problem.


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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    500 unjustifiable killings or just 500 in total.

    Given the sheer size of the US population that doesn't seem incredibly alarming to me if that's the case.

    Again I think it comes down to transparency. They should have a heavy check on them since as a society we give them heavy exceptional powers our citizens don't have.

    Transparency is the key. If we have that, then on calls they will need to be on their best behavior and we can root out the bad apples.

    They should be held accountable, but we also shouldn't judge each cop by those that make the news/social media.

    Part of the click bait society we live in unfortunately tends to trend towards sensationalism and leaving out the commonplace to go unnoticed.

    We need to stress thinking critically about things much more in our educational system.

    Too many foolish idiots in the world, that's the real problem.
    Their motto is "Protect and Serve" and we're talking about them doing literally the exact opposite of their job to a lethal degree 500 times a year lol.

    I get what you're saying though, but still, kind of funny.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    500 unjustifiable killings or just 500 in total.

    Given the sheer size of the US population that doesn't seem incredibly alarming to me if that's the case.

    Again I think it comes down to transparency. They should have a heavy check on them since as a society we give them heavy exceptional powers our citizens don't have.

    Transparency is the key. If we have that, then on calls they will need to be on their best behavior and we can root out the bad apples.

    They should be held accountable, but we also shouldn't judge each cop by those that make the news/social media.

    Part of the click bait society we live in unfortunately tends to trend towards sensationalism and leaving out the commonplace to go unnoticed.

    We need to stress thinking critically about things much more in our educational system.

    Too many foolish idiots in the world, that's the real problem.


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    Going back to the UK.... Their police have killed 5 people this year. United States population is 5 times bigger than the UK so it should be around 25 at this point in the United States if all things were equal. But they aren't so naturally our number should be higher. I think it would be acceptable for the United States to have around 100 police involved shootingsa year. We're 5 times above that number though.

  13. #58
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    Something about this entire Michael Bennett/LVPD thing seems contrived. Bennett's behaved like a guilty person, but not because he was hiding when he heard gunshots, that makes sense. But running for an exit after the cops had told everyone to "stay down?" Then continuing to run after being told to stop? Gee, uh, do you think there's a chance a cop might believe that could be the gunman?
    Was he was baiting the cops into arresting him so that he could play the "victim" card? One thing's for certain; the laughable media has played this up to be almost a Rodney King-level civil rights incident. Bennett was detained for 10 minutes...10 minutes...and clearly he was not physically abused by the cops.
    The media is shameless and obviously untrustworthy. It goes without saying they don't mind using the tragic murder of 20 kids gunned down at an elementary school in CT as an opportunity to reintroduce their gun agenda. Michael Bennett was wrongfully detained? Well then, civil rights is back on the table, fellas!

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Bull ****. The United States is number one in the world when it comes to officer abuse and killings committed by officers. The data speaks for itself.
    So what is the number? if 10% of law enforcement is corrupt in someway, does that constitute a COMPLETE OVERHAUL? I mean, seriously. You're suggesting everything in law enforcement be overhauled. Which the 90% of good officers need to be overhauled as well? Even if it's 20%, 30%, etc. You don't overhaul the entirety of law enforcement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Their motto is "Protect and Serve" and we're talking about them doing literally the exact opposite of their job to a lethal degree 500 times a year lol.

    I get what you're saying though, but still, kind of funny.
    Very, very doubtful that the 500 represents that though. Some of those 500 killings were in the best interest of protecting and serving the population. And there are probably other examples where they should have killed someone but didn't.


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