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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    The problem is that police are supposed to know.... That's part of their damn job.
    No not really, a police officers job is to enforce the law and ensure the general publics safety.

    City of Champions

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamburger View Post
    About 90% of black gun violence is homicide. About 80% of white gun violence is suicide. (According to Brookings Institute research- "Race and Guns in America")

    We see warzones in cities across the US even worse than Chicago (per capita shootings). In Chicago about 700 people were shot and killed in 2016. Again, that's not even the highest murder rate per capita.

    There's a major issue with gun violence within black neighborhoods in America. Police have to work in those conditions.

    Homicide by gun is the leading cause of death for black people (male and female) age 14-35. More than all other causes of death combined.

    BLM and other groups intentionally ignore the #1 threat to black lives because it would go against their real objectives. The real objective is to shift blame onto an exterior enemy with the goal of building a "mass movement" in order to destroy the "white supremacist capitalist patriarchy".

    They're a socialist organization at the end of the day. One fixated on race/gender as a means of ginning up hysteria. Too many well meaning people have fallen for this. Ending police brutality or saving black lives isn't the real goal.
    You are trying way too hard. Those stats mean close to nothing when you don't even take into account economic status, and you generalize black people as if we're all one big thing. That's the racist garbage BLM is standing against. People disingenuously siting stats with a clear agenda to justify something that shouldn't exist.

    When you mix guns with poverty and low education you get more crime than if those same people have money and are well educated. Given the history of this country the descendents of American slavery make up the majority of that bottom tier, as anyone with a brain would expect. But compare Nigerian Americans to any other group of first generation Americans and the numbers are similar across the board.

    There's nothing inherently violent about black neighborhoods, it's systemic. But when you send cops with your mindset in, they just create a bigger issue then there was before. It's like occupying a middle eastern country and treating the people you're suppose to protect as if they are all terrorist. It ruins what the relationship could've been.

    The bigger culprit to all of this is capitalism. It's just a really bad system when it comes to economizing our manpower. It's a pyramid scheme that people treat with religious like ignorance. Even you calling BLM socialist is funny. I doubt you even know what that term means.

    But back to the real topic. If they start shooting where I'm at, I'm going to mix in some hiding and some running. Bennett did nothing wrong with that. And the cops wouldn't have been too wrong if they'd of just stopped him, frisked him, and then let him go. The issue is picking him out of a crowd, THREATENING TO KILL HIM, and basically treating him like he committed a crime.

    The worse part about it is the cover up. The refuse to put out video they admit to having. And the officer who made the threat, of course his video has gone missing. He should be reprimanded just for that. That's destruction of evidence.

    Last thing. This idea that we should be as outraged at black on black crime as we are when the police kill black people is absurd simply for the reason you wouldn't say the same thing about terrorism. Let's all ignore Bin Laden because you're way more likely to be shot by your neighbor. What are 5000 dead when compared to how many Americans have killed other Americans in the decade. As soon as you change the variables this line of reasoning is exposed as absurd.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    No not really, a police officers job is to enforce the law and ensure the general publics safety.
    This. Professionals in the area of mental illness don't even understand mental illness.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughest4 View Post
    You are living in a different reality.
    In my opinion, there are ZERO areas that police don't need a gun..ZERO. Absolutely none.

    And a minimum of two years in the police academy? Absolutely unnecessary.
    Average training time in America for being a officer is 19 weeks. 4.5 months. I think most would argue it's not nearly enough. Takes 4-8 years to be a certified PGA member and it's not nearly as complicated as being an officer.

    PROCESSING

  5. #95
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    I don't understand how people can deny racism exists. There are videos of people actually being racist and saying flat out they hate black people. It's not a made up concept - it's litterally on display. And out of a million cops is someone really naive enough to think some of them don't fall into tat group. I'm not going to try and pretend if I can say it's 1%, .1%, 10%, 50%, 90%, 15%, etc. but I think we can all agree that simple logic states some percent are racist. And even 1 racist cop is too many. We can't just play around with people's lives like that having law enforcement prejudice against them. That's ****ed up. And I don't care if 99.999999% of the cop violence against blacks is due to their own behavior. Even the .0000001% that's because of racism is too much.

    At the same time, people do need to keep the context of police officers' jobs in mind. If you had a magic wand and wiped out all racism and prejudice you'll still have cases of police brutality and excessive force. Those issues can and do exist without racism. And sometimes in the case of excessive force it isn't even malicious. You can implement all the training in the world but a lot of the situations cops are in are split-second decisions. It's easy to look back and say that they could have de-escalated the situation without shooting but in the moment it's often not as clear. We can't lose sight of that. That's not to justify the mistakes they make but I think we're often too quick to point to racism just because a black person was the victim. That's not the reason behind every police and person of color interaction that ends badly.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughest4 View Post
    You are living in a different reality.
    In my opinion, there are ZERO areas that police don't need a gun..ZERO. Absolutely none.

    And a minimum of two years in the police academy? Absolutely unnecessary.
    I can't see anyone taking the jobs if they can't carry.

  7. #97
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    You are trying way too hard. Those stats mean close to nothing when you don't even take into account economic status, and you generalize black people as if we're all one big thing. That's the racist garbage BLM is standing against. People disingenuously siting stats with a clear agenda to justify something that shouldn't exist.

    When you mix guns with poverty and low education you get more crime than if those same people have money and are well educated. Given the history of this country the descendents of American slavery make up the majority of that bottom tier, as anyone with a brain would expect. But compare Nigerian Americans to any other group of first generation Americans and the numbers are similar across the board.
    Yes, there is a clear correlation between poverty and crime. Any poverty stricken community shows higher crime rates than a wealthy community. But the numbers do back that poor majority black communities have higher crime rates than poor majority white/Asian communities. That's not racist. That's just what the numbers say.

    There's nothing inherently violent about black neighborhoods, it's systemic. But when you send cops with your mindset in, they just create a bigger issue then there was before. It's like occupying a middle eastern country and treating the people you're suppose to protect as if they are all terrorist. It ruins what the relationship could've been.
    It's not inherent nor is it systemic. And it goes both ways. It's a never ending circle. It's not just the cops attitudes that created this. Actions and words have created said attitudes in most cases. Both sides are to blame here, it's not one sided.

    The bigger culprit to all of this is capitalism. It's just a really bad system when it comes to economizing our manpower. It's a pyramid scheme that people treat with religious like ignorance. Even you calling BLM socialist is funny. I doubt you even know what that term means.
    HAHAHAHA Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Capitalism has removed more poverty than any other governmental system in this history of the human race. That's a simple fact.

    But back to the real topic. If they start shooting where I'm at, I'm going to mix in some hiding and some running. Bennett did nothing wrong with that. And the cops wouldn't have been too wrong if they'd of just stopped him, frisked him, and then let him go. The issue is picking him out of a crowd, THREATENING TO KILL HIM, and basically treating him like he committed a crime.
    I've said in previous posts, we can't train human instinct. The cops handled the situation poorly hear, but as did Bennett. If it wasn't a split second, natural instinct by both parties...The both probably would have made different decisions. Again. Goes both ways. Not one.

    The worse part about it is the cover up. The refuse to put out video they admit to having. And the officer who made the threat, of course his video has gone missing. He should be reprimanded just for that. That's destruction of evidence.
    This is a poor look. But let it play out a little longer.

    Last thing. This idea that we should be as outraged at black on black crime as we are when the police kill black people is absurd simply for the reason you wouldn't say the same thing about terrorism. Let's all ignore Bin Laden because you're way more likely to be shot by your neighbor. What are 5000 dead when compared to how many Americans have killed other Americans in the decade. As soon as you change the variables this line of reasoning is exposed as absurd.
    You're arguing that the two issues are not one in the same. To which I agree. But then you simply state we should only be outraged about police killings. We should be outraged about both and we should look into each one individually because each murder is surrounded by different circumstances. Some justified, some not.

    City of Champions

  8. #98
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    Calling me racist for pointing out why black people have more police contact on average is absurd. This is the exact tactic they use to deflect attention away from social/cultural accountability. To deflect attention away from the fact that many police work in absolute warzones.

    We call them warzones because more people have been killed (in one city) over a ten year period than troops in the Iraq war. These warzone exist across the USA.

    On the topic of policing in black areas it doesn't matter how or why this gun violence exists. Only thing that matters is the fact it exists and it needs to stop before black males age 14-45 can expect equal treatment under the law.

    Stop perpetuating warzone steeet culture. Stop blaming it on white people and take some responsibility for creating, ignoring or maintaining this culture. Stop being cowards (mostly said to white liberals and socialists who have crafted these never ending excuses and thus harm to the black community). You people are doing far more harm than good.

    If movements like BLM were focused on ending this culture instead they would be doing 100% more good. If they used that same energy, the same resources and hysteria they would probably put a huge dent in warzone steet culture. And yet....white people are the target. More of the same that we saw from the communists of the 1960's. What has that brand of activism done for the black community? Not talking about MLK, more so the BP party and it's offshoots.

    And no, when speaking of trends such as homicide rates and gun violence it doesn't mean every single black male age 14-45 is out there committing gun violence. It only means that specific demographic is far more likley to commit gun violence compared to, say, a 65 year old Asian women. Facts are not racist. Statistics are not racist.

    That accusation is losing power. Like the boy who cried wolf.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamburger View Post
    Calling me racist for pointing out why black people have more police contact on average is absurd. This is the exact tactic they use to deflect attention away from social/cultural accountability. To deflect attention away from the fact that many police work in absolute warzones.

    We call them warzones because more people have been killed (in one city) over a ten year period than troops in the Iraq war. These warzone exist across the USA.

    On the topic of policing in black areas it doesn't matter how or why this gun violence exists. Only thing that matters is the fact it exists and it needs to stop before black males age 14-45 can expect equal treatment under the law.

    Stop perpetuating warzone steeet culture. Stop blaming it on white people and take some responsibility for creating, ignoring or maintaining this culture. Stop being cowards (mostly said to white liberals and socialists who have crafted these never ending excuses and thus harm to the black community). You people are doing far more harm than good.

    If movements like BLM were focused on ending this culture instead they would be doing 100% more good. If they used that same energy, the same resources and hysteria they would probably put a huge dent in warzone steet culture. And yet....white people are the target. More of the same that we saw from the communists of the 1960's. What has that brand of activism done for the black community? Not talking about MLK, more so the BP party and it's offshoots.

    And no, when speaking of trends such as homicide rates and gun violence it doesn't mean every single black male age 14-45 is out there committing gun violence. It only means that specific demographic is far more likley to commit gun violence compared to, say, a 65 year old Asian women. Facts are not racist. Statistics are not racist.

    That accusation is losing power. Like the boy who cried wolf.
    See, this is the problem in your line of thinking. They should get equal treatment no matter what. And equal treatment includes being held accountable for their actions that are wrong. So yes, the "warzone street culture" people as you call them should be dealt with by the police with violence if the situation calls for it. But the mere fact that someone is black shouldn't mean that cops assume they're a part of that culture. And that type of profiling absolutely happens and you're just oblivious to the world if you pretend that's not the case to some degree. And it being the case to any degree is too much.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    See, this is the problem in your line of thinking. They should get equal treatment no matter what. And equal treatment includes being held accountable for their actions that are wrong. So yes, the "warzone street culture" people as you call them should be dealt with by the police with violence if the situation calls for it. But the mere fact that someone is black shouldn't mean that cops assume they're a part of that culture. And that type of profiling absolutely happens and you're just oblivious to the world if you pretend that's not the case to some degree. And it being the case to any degree is too much.
    If 7 foot tall people were 200 times more likley to shoot someone unfortunately police would be giving tall people more attention. If people in wheel chairs committed 53% of this nations murders for 20+ years they would be getting more attention from police. Is it fair? No. How would we fix that? Which solution would benefit the most people? The one where we minimize shootings in the streets.

    Right now murder is the leading cause of death for black males age 14-35. You can combine all the other causes of death and murder is still the leading cause of death for that age group.

    It's an absolute epidemic. Your notions of juctice would work in some perfect world but when there's literally warzones across the USA it's a different story.

    It shoukd be common sense. If we want to minimize police contact for black males age 14- 45 we need to minimize gun violence from that demographic. It's not about fairness or feelings it's about saving lives and minimizing police contact. I'd say the same no matter what race or age group was generating this high level of gun violence and police contact.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamburger View Post
    If 7 foot tall people were 200 times more likley to shoot someone unfortunately police would be giving tall people more attention. If people in wheel chairs committed 53% of this nations murders for 20+ years they would be getting more attention from police. Is it fair? No. How would we fix that? Which solution would benefit the most people? The one where we minimize shootings in the streets.

    Right now murder is the leading cause of death for black males age 14-35. You can combine all the other causes of death and murder is still the leading cause of death for that age group.

    It's an absolute epidemic. Your notions of juctice would work in some perfect world but when there's literally warzones across the USA it's a different story.

    It shoukd be common sense. If we want to minimize police contact for black males age 14- 45 we need to minimize gun violence from that demographic. It's not about fairness or feelings it's about saving lives and minimizing police contact. I'd say the same no matter what race or age group was generating this high level of gun violence and police contact.
    I completely understand your first paragraph. As I said, it's a very complex issue. The difference is you just throw your hands up and say well there's no other choice while I think that we should explore any ways possible to reduce the racial profiling you talk about. Because you're not in the oppressed group you really just don't give a damn. Even though I'm not in the oppressed group I still think it's wrong and want to make a better America for others.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    This. Professionals in the area of mental illness don't even understand mental illness.
    Alright I'll jump down the rabbit hole with you. What in the world are you talking about?

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Average training time in America for being a officer is 19 weeks. 4.5 months. I think most would argue it's not nearly enough. Takes 4-8 years to be a certified PGA member and it's not nearly as complicated as being an officer.
    This. And honestly I'm shocked that so many are alright with it. Like how are you ok with someone bring in control of your life with what equates to a semester of training? Hell even to take x-rays it takes 18 months of training. People need to wake up and realize that policing in this country is very inadequate.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgjohnson7851 View Post
    Alright I'll jump down the rabbit hole with you. What in the world are you talking about?
    Mental illness isn't static. I deal with multiple individuals who have dual diagnosis in DD/MI. MI is much more complicated to figure out and support correctly.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Mental illness isn't static. I deal with multiple individuals who have dual diagnosis in DD/MI. MI is much more complicated to figure out and support correctly.
    For sure. But I don't think police need to know how to diagnose or treat it. I think they need to recognize mental illness and be better trained on how to de-escalate conflict.

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