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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedandGold_35 View Post
    You kind of have to abandon the run when down as much as they were in the second half. It was 13-0 at half and then on the first series in the 3rd Kuechley gets an INT that leads to a touchdown. So 20-0 by early 3rd. You can't really run alot when you need quick scores to get back in it.

    Even when they did start throwing for most of a series, one drive netted 3 points and the other got down to the 1 yard line, so it wasn't as if it wasn't effective, it just didn't get the end results needed.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...fo.htm#all_pbp

    What Super Bowl are you referencing? Last years? Because he didn't abandon the run in the Super Bowl.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...tl.htm#all_pbp
    I disagree. Even in a comeback you need to run the ball. You have to keep the defense honest. And if you are not running the ball, don't run play action because nobody's going to buy it.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I disagree. Even in a comeback you need to run the ball. You have to keep the defense honest. And if you are not running the ball, don't run play action because nobody's going to buy it.
    That's fine if you do, but down 20-3, you don't have the luxury to run the ball, potentially go nowhere, and have the clock continue to wind. A team up 3 scores will let you have medium gain runs at will with about a quarter left in the game because all it does is kill your chances all the quicker. I highly doubt you would see any team run more than a few times in the same situation. You need to score and score quickly. Keeping them honest is nothing but a cliche in that scenario.

  3. #33
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    Agreed.

    And to add to that, I think even if you do want to utilize the ground game, you have to go with a guy that can make the defense pay with his speed.

    It's gotta be someone who can get outside of the tackles and break one off for 50 yards.

    As explosive as Hyde is, that's not him. He's athletic as they come, but he's a bruiser. 3-8 yard chunks aren't going to do much for you in that scenario.

  4. #34
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    Pumped we picked up Elijah Lee!!! He's a project but I think he can be good.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CodeRed View Post
    He was hurt...

    Article from CSN Bay Area says he was a healthy scratch.
    2009-2014. 3 World Series Championships, 2 Stanley Cup Championships, 2 NBA Championships, and a Super Bowl Appearance. 3 No-Hitters, 1 Perfect Game, 3 NFC Title Games, Jim Harbaugh, Bruce Bochy, Phil Jackson, Daryl Sutter.

    PRESENT: Lakers #2 draft pick (New GM, New President), Giants #2 draft pick (somebody better get fired), 49ers #2 draft pick (New Coach, New GM), LA Kings #11 draft pick (New Coach, New GM)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedandGold_35 View Post
    You kind of have to abandon the run when down as much as they were in the second half. It was 13-0 at half and then on the first series in the 3rd Kuechley gets an INT that leads to a touchdown. So 20-0 by early 3rd. You can't really run alot when you need quick scores to get back in it.
    You have the minority viewpoint in this one. Kyle's offense is not one dimensional, and down 20-0 early in the third isn't the time to abandon the run. Not with your defense plays reasonably well. I've listen to all of the beat guys, all of the KNBR guys, even the broadcasters; there isn't a single one that takes your viewpoint.

    What Super Bowl are you referencing? Last years? Because he didn't abandon the run in the Super Bowl.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...tl.htm#all_pbp
    He mismanaged the clock with his 7 step drops while up 25 points. He certainly wasn't Greg Roman out there in the 2nd half, more like Mike Martz. It takes some serious incompetence to blow a 25 point lead with an offense as elite as his was last year.

    You need to look at the box score more carefully. 9 of atlanta's last 11 plays were passes. Keep in mind New England tied it late, so ATL still had a lead. I won't dissect Kyle's failure in the SB, it's fairly obvious. He's still learning the game management side of things, I saw these issues in the pre-season, and I saw them in game 1. He's still learning.
    Last edited by leftymo; 09-13-2017 at 06:46 PM.
    2009-2014. 3 World Series Championships, 2 Stanley Cup Championships, 2 NBA Championships, and a Super Bowl Appearance. 3 No-Hitters, 1 Perfect Game, 3 NFC Title Games, Jim Harbaugh, Bruce Bochy, Phil Jackson, Daryl Sutter.

    PRESENT: Lakers #2 draft pick (New GM, New President), Giants #2 draft pick (somebody better get fired), 49ers #2 draft pick (New Coach, New GM), LA Kings #11 draft pick (New Coach, New GM)

  7. #37
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    The abandoning of the run for Game 1, occurred early in the 2nd quarter. Hyde rushes for 18 yards with 3 minutes left in the first quarter. For his next 4 carries which go into the 3rd quarter, he gains 4 yards. The ratio pass to run is 2:1, and one of the runs is that 3 yard draw play on 3rd and 24. Another is a 4th and 1 play to the FB that gained 0.

    I mean this has been dissected enough. Hyde had 4 carries 40 yards at one point, ended with 9 carries 45 yards or something. The offense fell on its face, but Kyle should recognize it's not Matt Ryan and Julio Jones out there, and manage the game a little smarter. If he is coaching to win. If he's coaching to lose...by all means, do exactly what you did in game 1. It worked like a charm.
    2009-2014. 3 World Series Championships, 2 Stanley Cup Championships, 2 NBA Championships, and a Super Bowl Appearance. 3 No-Hitters, 1 Perfect Game, 3 NFC Title Games, Jim Harbaugh, Bruce Bochy, Phil Jackson, Daryl Sutter.

    PRESENT: Lakers #2 draft pick (New GM, New President), Giants #2 draft pick (somebody better get fired), 49ers #2 draft pick (New Coach, New GM), LA Kings #11 draft pick (New Coach, New GM)

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftymo View Post
    You have the minority viewpoint in this one. Kyle's offense is not one dimensional, and down 20-0 early in the third isn't the time to abandon the run. Not with your defense plays reasonably well. I've listen to all of the beat guys, all of the KNBR guys, even the broadcasters; there isn't a single one that takes your viewpoint.



    He mismanaged the clock with his 7 step drops while up 25 points. He certainly wasn't Greg Roman out there in the 2nd half, more like Mike Martz. It takes some serious incompetence to blow a 25 point lead with an offense as elite as his was last year.

    You need to look at the box score more carefully. 9 of atlanta's last 11 plays were passes. Keep in mind New England tied it late, so ATL still had a lead. I won't dissect Kyle's failure in the SB, it's fairly obvious. He's still learning the game management side of things, I saw these issues in the pre-season, and I saw them in game 1. He's still learning.
    So 9 of 11 plays is abandoning? I think you definition is a little skewed. I can think of many many coaches and situations that puts that small sample size to shame.

    As to being backed by the "beat guys", you've "poo poo'd" that in previous interactions, so sorry it's not going to carry water here. There were two, a whole TWO, series where there was a huge disparity of pass run ratio while late in the game and down 3 scores. There is no run the ball in that scenario, not unless you're looking for an issue.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftymo View Post
    The abandoning of the run for Game 1, occurred early in the 2nd quarter. Hyde rushes for 18 yards with 3 minutes left in the first quarter. For his next 4 carries which go into the 3rd quarter, he gains 4 yards. The ratio pass to run is 2:1, and one of the runs is that 3 yard draw play on 3rd and 24. Another is a 4th and 1 play to the FB that gained 0.

    I mean this has been dissected enough. Hyde had 4 carries 40 yards at one point, ended with 9 carries 45 yards or something. The offense fell on its face, but Kyle should recognize it's not Matt Ryan and Julio Jones out there, and manage the game a little smarter. If he is coaching to win. If he's coaching to lose...by all means, do exactly what you did in game 1. It worked like a charm.
    A 2:1 ratio is fairly normal for most teams. Say what you like about effectiveness of the runs, still doesn't really change that if you're down that much you can't run the ball to catch up. So it's either throw alot or run the ball to satiate arm chair GMs who want to think they know best.

  10. #40
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    Since we wanna talk Super Bowl, anyone want to put down money on if the Patriots ran the ball alot during the 20+ point comeback? (4:1 ratio BTW)

    Probably not wise to use a game he needed to run the clock out in as an example, when the opponents did the exact thing people are complaining about to win a SB.
    Last edited by RedandGold_35; 09-13-2017 at 07:26 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedandGold_35 View Post
    That's fine if you do, but down 20-3, you don't have the luxury to run the ball, potentially go nowhere, and have the clock continue to wind. A team up 3 scores will let you have medium gain runs at will with about a quarter left in the game because all it does is kill your chances all the quicker. I highly doubt you would see any team run more than a few times in the same situation. You need to score and score quickly. Keeping them honest is nothing but a cliche in that scenario.
    Down 17 with 23 minutes to go ... still run the ball. Look at the 80s 49ers come backs they still ran the ball with Craig and Rathman, they are not exactly burners. I'm not saying run after run after run, but running the ball some makes a huge difference to how the defense plays.
    MacLean's Law: Everywhere you go there will be a jerk. Corrolary: If you go somewhere by yourself you become a jerk.

    I don't care where anyone chooses to go in free agency. I really don't. Yes, KD "broke" the NBA for a year or two, but I can't blame him for going to the team that fit what he wanted.

    The worst part about the Warriors winning is that now I can't have an opinion without being a "homer" or a "hater". It used to be that dialogue had merit independent of accusations.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Down 17 with 23 minutes to go ... still run the ball. Look at the 80s 49ers come backs they still ran the ball with Craig and Rathman, they are not exactly burners. I'm not saying run after run after run, but running the ball some makes a huge difference to how the defense plays.
    Down 13 they threw the ball twice, the 2nd was the INT, that's not really getting away from running as 2 plays isn't really anything to go on.

    Down 20 their next series was run 1yd/pass 3yd/pass/punt. Then it was 23-0 with 18 to go. So hard to really see anything out of a 3 play series to say they needed to run more, especially when they needed 6 on 3rd down.

    I just don't comprehend this whole "forgot the run" mentality. They had 5 plays on two series, sure four were throws, but who knows how a longer series would have gone. Just seems very presumptive. Then, when down alot they obviously had to throw. Just seems like way over evaluation.
    Last edited by RedandGold_35; 09-13-2017 at 09:02 PM.

  13. #43
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    All I can say is, living near Philly, I saw many an Andy Reid game while he was here and I've seen the run abandoned like a box of puppies on the side of the road wether they were up or down, this game wasn't it to me.

    16 of Hoyers 35 attempts were when down 23-0 and less than 20 mins left.
    Last edited by RedandGold_35; 09-13-2017 at 09:26 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftymo View Post
    Article from CSN Bay Area says he was a healthy scratch.
    He was hurt all week, but cleared to play Sunday.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedandGold_35 View Post
    So 9 of 11 plays is abandoning? I think you definition is a little skewed. I can think of many many coaches and situations that puts that small sample size to shame.

    As to being backed by the "beat guys", you've "poo poo'd" that in previous interactions, so sorry it's not going to carry water here. There were two, a whole TWO, series where there was a huge disparity of pass run ratio while late in the game and down 3 scores. There is no run the ball in that scenario, not unless you're looking for an issue.
    Yes...it is actually abandoning. Even if its a 3 and out, you run the clock when you are up 25. He abandoned the run in the Superbowl.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    I didn't want to throw this information out here. I was a 3 year varsity starter at QB in high school. I played quarterback in junior college as well. I was considering playing division 1 football as well but chose to pursue my career in business instead. However, currently I am helping train with Derek Carr from Fresno State get ready for his pro day and the draft. I am also working with Cody Kessler, the USC quarterback.

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