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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    For the record, Trump hasn't ended DACA, he hasn't even suspended it & Even made it clear that he wants it legalized.
    So he DOESNT want to end daca?

    Who knows what to believe any more. I thought sessions said he wants it done..?

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    So he DOESNT want to end daca?

    Who knows what to believe any more. I thought sessions said he wants it done..?
    Trump likely, and Sessions definitely, actually want it ended. "Legalized" is a very generous term. Look at what Conway had to say and how non-committal his staff has been in trying to decipher his Tweets.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...artment-242375

    There's always been a bit of a divorce between what Trump tweets out and the reality of the situation, but it seems pretty easy to read between the lines. Despite what has been said, his initial statement and intent is to end DACA. He later offered up this six month deadline for Congress to make it work in some type of legislation, and it's still not clear whether that six month deadline will end up being that long.

    "Revisiting" the issue is likely ending the program after Congress tries to allow for provisions people who support DACA want while trying to get concessions on border wall funding going, which has been rumored. This allows Trump the option of not ending it immediately and if Congress works something out, great, he can say he didn't just end it but his base will have gotten the rhetoric it wanted. If they don't work it out (considering how dumb everyone thinks the wall is this is very possible), he can blame it on Congress, and then end the program.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    There's about 11 million illegal immigrants in this country and roughly half came from Mexico and that's not counting the immigrants that went through Mexico on their way from El Salvador or Honduras, etc.
    well then we should have no immigration laws b/c if any law effects one group more then another it is racist
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    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  4. #214
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    Internal WH memos sure do make it sound like they wanted end. Trump is just making a push to blame congress if they can't pass a law.


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  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No they are not. Don't blame democrats for your failing to read/understand what you're talking about.

    Nobody is misleading anything, you simply cannot read. Stop blaming Democrats for you not being able to read.
    are you kidding me. it's the talking point right now that how ending DACA is so cruel to these poor children that could be sent back to a country that they don't know. except a majority of those in DACA right now are no longer children.






    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Valade: we both know that it was understood who DACA applied to and the age of the folks was never the issue. It's not the content of their character but thr browness of their skin. Otherwise they would speak out as vociferously against the majority of people in this country who are here illegally as a result of overstayed visas from primarily Western European (white) countries.

    this is a stupid comparison and typical of the left.
    over staying VISA is completely different because they didn't enter America illegally. those in DACA literally entered America illegally.






    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Nobody has to spin it into a racial issue. Either it is a racial issue or it isn't. But don't flatter yourself, I could win this argument without ever having to call anyone racist.
    it isn't. it's a legal vs illegal issue.
    typical of many on the left that want to make this a racial issue trying to manipulate people into believing such ******** because they know they need minority votes to win. how much of the minority vote did Democrats get in this recent election, and they still lost. push the racism angle harder!







    Quote Originally Posted by browski234 View Post
    um, yeah, sure lol. Were you expecting something different? But you won't feel the same way about Arpaio, so why are you trying to do this "gotcha" moment when you have openly supported the idea of letting racism motivate the way law enforcement does its job? And burning puppies. Don't forget that too.

    yes.
    is it not an argument from the black community that blacks are wrongfully arrested and that some laws unfairly target blacks? if those say that pardoning Arpaio was wrong because he was convicted of breaking the law, then these same people have no argument in anyone black wrongfully charged/convicted, because they broke the law too.
    don't spin it back on me to deflect.







    many of current media are not really mentioned this. this article from 2012.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...sm-abound.html

    Obama Details New Immigration Policy, But Skepticism Remains
    Bryan Llenas

    By Bryan Llenas Published June 15, 2012
    President Barack Obama laid out details of his new immigration policy that will stop deporting and will issue work permits to up to 800,000 young undocumented immigrants who came to the United States as children and have never committed a crime.

    "This is not amnesty, this is not immunity, this is not a path to citizenship, it's not a permanent fix, this is a temporary stop gap measure," Obama said, about the new immigration policy.

    Under the new policy, announced early Friday by the Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano, undocumented immigrants will be immune from deportation if they were brought to the United States before they turned 16 and are younger than 30, have been in the country for at least five continuous years, have no criminal history, graduated from a U.S. high school or earned a GED, or served in the military. Those who qualify for the program can apply for a work permit that will be good for two years with no limits on how many times it can be renewed.

    One caveat is that the policy does not offer a path to citizenship, which is the center piece of the Democrat-backed DREAM Act. The DREAM Act gives undocumented students brought as minors, known as 'Dreamers,' a chance to obtain permanent U.S. residency if they attend college or serve in the military, and eventually apply for citizenship if they desire.

    "It makes no sense to expel talented young people, who for all intent and purposes are Americans," Obama said of the so-called Dreamers, who have been holding hunger strikes, sit-ins and rallies throughout the country to fight for their cause.

    Still, hours after the policy announcement, skepticism abounds among DREAM Act activists and Republicans alike.

    Florida Republican Mario Diaz-Balart, a supporter of the DREAM Act and comprehensive immigration reform, believes Obama has not delivered on any of his promises and said the president's plan to halt deportations of young immigrants “seems like a desperate campaign move.”

    “It’s a step in the right direction, but nowhere near what he promised, and no-where near what we have to do in order to solve the problem,” Diaz-Balart said to Fox News Latino. “Six months before the election, now he remembers the Latino community exists.”

    The announcement, made five months before the presidential election, was strongly questioned by critics of Obama who believe the policy change should have been debated on Capitol Hill.

    “He knew from the very beginning, this president, that amnesty was rejected time and time again by the American people," said Bob Kane, Communications Director at Federation for American Immigration Reform. "He knew amnesty was not possible legislatively and yet by executive fiat he has declared the new plan of the land.”

    Critics point to Obama’s 2008 promise that he would get comprehensive immigration reform passed by the end of his first term as President – even pledging to make it a “top priority” in his first year. Unsuccessful, the president renewed his commitment to immigration reform in April of this year, pledging that he'll be more successful in his second term.

    “The challenge we’ve got on immigration reform is very simple,” Obama, said during an interview with Univision. “I’ve got a majority of Democrats who are prepared to vote for it, and I’ve got no Republicans who are prepared to vote for it.”

    Daniela Alulema, an undocumented immigrant and core-member of the undocumented youth-led organization called the New York State Youth Leadership Council, is cautiously optimistic.

    “I’m very, very excited,” said Alulema, 25, who arrived in the U.S. from Ecuador at the age of 14. “We look forward to seeing how it is implemented. Hopefully, we don’t have to fight deportations anymore.”

    Despite her optimism, Alulema is weary of the administration's broken promises.

    Alulema points to a Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) memo, released a year ago and written by director John Morton, that instructs the agency to focus on deporting undocumented immigrants who pose a threat to national security, and endanger public safety. The memo said ICE would prioritize their resources on tracking those with criminal records.

    “It was a failure –the prosecutorial memo wasn’t implemented correctly, undocumented students who are going to high school, and trying to help their families are being put in detention centers, and deported,” Aluema explained.

    Despite the skepticism, Democratic Rep. Luis Gutiérrez of Illinois, chairman of the Immigration Task Force of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus (CHC) and a leading DREAM Act supporter in Congress, believes the new policy is a bold move and the right thing to do. Gutiérrez urged patience because the program still needed to be finalized and needs at least 60 days to put the policy in place.

    “This could protect 800,000 or more young immigrants with roots here right now, and will be seen in the immigrant and Latino community as a very significant down payment on broader reform,” Gutiérrez wrote in a statement.

    The new immigration policy comes one week before Obama plans to address the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials' annual conference in Orlando, Fla. Republican presidential challenger Mitt Romney is scheduled to speak to the group on Thursday.

    "It's the right thing to do," Obama said Friday about helping undocumented youth, or so-called DREAMers. "They are Americans in their heart, in their minds, in every single way but one - on paper."

    why is it assumed that all of these immigrants that enter (illegally) as children are all "talented". that is an ignorant thing to assume when there have been criminals.

    why was this also not something that was a path to citizenship? this is ****ing ridiculous. enter America illegally as a children, keep renewing DACA and you can remain illegal and not an American citizen for as long as DACA is around (lifetime possibility). this is completely backwards when people should want immigrants to become legal American citizens.







    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-dreamers-out/

    Michael Reagan, son of America’s widely loved former president, Ronald Reagan, set the Twitter world on fire by saying his father wouldn’t boot out “dreamers.”

    Perhaps not — but then again, neither is President Donald Trump.

    The howlers in the media, however, want it believed otherwise.

    Michael Reagantweeted: “Fyi, my father would not kick the dreamers out of the US. He would find a way to work with Congress and lead.”

    And now Reagan’s tweet, taken out of context of several others he put out on social media, can be used to feed the narrative of the left, which wants to paint Trump as the cowboy who’s riding into Illegal Town to lasso some cowering kids.

    But take a deeper look at the White House’s stated fate of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program. It’s not exactly a booting.

    Trump’s not exactly rounding up the DACAs and telling them to hit the outside-of-America roads.

    Even CNN’s headline is accurate on this: “Trump ends DACA but gives Congress window to save it.”

    That’s right.

    The Department of Homeland Security is going to quit processing new DACA applications. But Congress has six months to come up with its own plan — as should have happened from the get-go.

    Remember: DACA was shoved down America’s throat by Barack Obama’s unilateral action — an action he took because Congress didn’t do his amnesty bidding. So he went the solo route, a la king-like, and declared an open door for certain illegals.

    Unconstitutional?

    You bet. Even Obama himself, before he wore the White House Crown, admitted to political supporters he couldn’t lawfully take immigration matters into his own hands. Yet he did with DACA, giving 800,000 or so illegals a shelter from the deportation storm and an EZ Pass, albeit renewable two-year terms, to pursue careers and education while they raised their families.

    As Trump said, while announcing intent to end this illegal program: “It is now time for Congress to act.”

    That’s a law-and-order argument, nothing more, nothing less.


    “As I’ve said before, we will resolve the DACA issue with heart and compassion — but through the lawful democratic process,” Trump said.

    And his attorney general, Jeff Sessions, spelled out in greater detail the disaster that can come from failing to instill a law-and-order standard on matters tied to the border.

    “To have a lawful system of immigration that serves the national interest,” Sessions said at a press conference on the DACA decision, “we cannot admit everyone who would like to come here.”

    And this is the part that’s pertinent — while sadly cast aside in much of the hysterical reporting about the fate of DACA: “If Congress chooses to make changes to [these] laws, to do so through the process set forth by our founders in a way that advances the interest of the nation,” then Congress can certainly do so, Sessions said.

    Reagan went on in separate tweets to acknowledge that “Trump put the ball in the right court. The Congress,” and that “immigration issues belong with the Congress not with POTUS.”

    And truly, that’s all Trump’s doing with DACA — reeling in the executive overreach of Obama days and putting a bit of a constitutional touch back on immigration.

    The left is painting Trump as cruel, unhinged, crazed even. But his DACA directive? It’s simply common-sense constitutional — and therein lies the pro-amnesty left’s problem with it.
    this is a legal/illegal issue being sent to Congress to make a law that makes sense for America in immigration.



  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    are you kidding me. it's the talking point right now that how ending DACA is so cruel to these poor children that could be sent back to a country that they don't know. except a majority of those in DACA right now are no longer children.









    this is a stupid comparison and typical of the left.
    over staying VISA is completely different because they didn't enter America illegally. those in DACA literally entered America illegally.








    it isn't. it's a legal vs illegal issue.
    typical of many on the left that want to make this a racial issue trying to manipulate people into believing such ******** because they know they need minority votes to win. how much of the minority vote did Democrats get in this recent election, and they still lost. push the racism angle harder!










    yes.
    is it not an argument from the black community that blacks are wrongfully arrested and that some laws unfairly target blacks? if those say that pardoning Arpaio was wrong because he was convicted of breaking the law, then these same people have no argument in anyone black wrongfully charged/convicted, because they broke the law too.
    don't spin it back on me to deflect.







    many of current media are not really mentioned this. this article from 2012.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...sm-abound.html





    why is it assumed that all of these immigrants that enter (illegally) as children are all "talented". that is an ignorant thing to assume when there have been criminals.

    why was this also not something that was a path to citizenship? this is ****ing ridiculous. enter America illegally as a children, keep renewing DACA and you can remain illegal and not an American citizen for as long as DACA is around (lifetime possibility). this is completely backwards when people should want immigrants to become legal American citizens.







    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-dreamers-out/



    this is a legal/illegal issue being sent to Congress to make a law that makes sense for America in immigration.
    Not sure entirely what ur saying here, but if you support deporting people who have been here their entire life, then you are legitimately ****ed in the head

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by browski234 View Post
    Trump likely, and Sessions definitely, actually want it ended. "Legalized" is a very generous term. Look at what Conway had to say and how non-committal his staff has been in trying to decipher his Tweets.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...artment-242375

    There's always been a bit of a divorce between what Trump tweets out and the reality of the situation, but it seems pretty easy to read between the lines. Despite what has been said, his initial statement and intent is to end DACA. He later offered up this six month deadline for Congress to make it work in some type of legislation, and it's still not clear whether that six month deadline will end up being that long.

    "Revisiting" the issue is likely ending the program after Congress tries to allow for provisions people who support DACA want while trying to get concessions on border wall funding going, which has been rumored. This allows Trump the option of not ending it immediately and if Congress works something out, great, he can say he didn't just end it but his base will have gotten the rhetoric it wanted. If they don't work it out (considering how dumb everyone thinks the wall is this is very possible), he can blame it on Congress, and then end the program.
    It's odd. Ever notice how trump supporters seem to show their strongest support when trump DOESNT do the things he threatens to do.

    It's like deep down, they all know what a stupid ****in idiot he is, and start feeling solace the less influence his dumb *** has over things.

  8. #218
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    If it was European kids, we wouldn't be having this conversation, judging how Trump view illegal from mexico and south america.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Not sure entirely what ur saying here, but if you support deporting people who have been here their entire life, then you are legitimately ****ed in the head
    Also there is a serious mens rea concern to deporting people who came over as children. They didn't mindfully break the law. I hope someone at ACLU or advocacy group mentions that.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Also there is a serious mens rea concern to deporting people who came over as children. They didn't mindfully break the law. I hope someone at ACLU or advocacy group mentions that.
    Honestly, politics aside, it is truly sad if this is the mentality our country is heading to. No one can control where they live at 5 years old, uprooting someone's entire life based on something out of their hands from decades earlier, a person has to be legitimately ****ed up to support that kinda ****. What is wrong with people?

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    It was cruel for Obama to sign this executive order in the first place, giving people false hope.
    In the meantime, some of them have had kids, bought houses, & so forth.

    Trump could hand Sessions a list with over 800k family names & addresses on it to deport & there wouldn't be anything illegal about it for the most part.

    Elections have consequences, this executive order cost Democrats dearly, & if Republicans support amnesty it'll be career suicide for a lot of them.
    I discussed this with a guy who works for me when Obama signed the EO... He was telling people he knew who worked for his wife's cleaning service not to sign up because he knew this would happen once Obama was out of office and said they would just use the list of people who signed up to round everyone up. I don't know if that will happen but it is certainly plausible and probably not illegal albeit immoral

    As for the bigger issue... neither party is right...

    laws have to be put in place and enforced that deal with unfettered illegal entry into the US... At the same time the people who currently fall outside legal status but are here need to be able to stay. Congress needs to draw a bright line... if you were here before XXX date (no more than 6 months back) you can apply for the process ... if not... to bad. Then those entering illegally afterward... you go back...

    Will it happen? Who knows? If it does it won't be for the right reason... it will just be for political expediency and leverage.

    the duopoly of the American political system has ruined the country... until people realize that they will never be anything more than pawns in a bigger game.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    are you kidding me. it's the talking point right now that how ending DACA is so cruel to these poor children that could be sent back to a country that they don't know. except a majority of those in DACA right now are no longer children.

    it isn't. it's a legal vs illegal issue.
    typical of many on the left that want to make this a racial issue trying to manipulate people into believing such ******** because they know they need minority votes to win. how much of the minority vote did Democrats get in this recent election, and they still lost. push the racism angle harder!
    First Bolded: God I love how hypocritical you are. It makes you look ridiculous in pretty much every thread.

    You are, right now, in another thread saying that the number of Muslims cheering 9/11 that Trump claimed doesn't matter and that the fact that some cheered is the important part.

    Now let's use that same logic on this issue.

    Are some of the DACA people still children? Yes. So according to you that talking point that ending DACA is cruel to poor children is factually correct.

    You don't get to have it both ways. Let me know if the number matters for the factualness of the statement so I can quote you and show how stupid you are in the other thread. Thanks.

    Second Bolded: There's no need to "push" any racist angle. Believe it or not, minorities are not voting for your conservative candidates because Democrats are calling them racist, they are not voting for them because they can see what conservatives are saying and doing.

    For instance, every minority on this site disagrees with you and it has nothing to do with you being called a racist and everything to do with what you post.

  13. #223
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    The big push from the far right is now violence. Breitbart, unsurprisingly, has gone with quite the racist angle, painting Dreamers as violent MS-13 members (hilariously, the picture they used was actually one of a group of people opposing MS-13 in El Salvador). There's been a lot of sharing of crime rates among Dreamers. Breitbart, again, posted an article about the 2,139 DACA recipients being convicted or accused of crimes. 2,139 out of 800,000 equals 0.26%. This is about 10x less than the US crime rate. In fact, almost 1 in 3 people have a criminal record. So that's another garbage angle (not that the actions of a tiny minority should render the rest disposable).

    And always, because you can't argue about anything without the conservative "free-loader" angle...there's the argument about how much they get for not being citizens. DACA recipients are ineligible for food stamps, medicaid, SSI, welfare, section 8, obamacare, most financial aide, and so on. Oh, and they pay taxes...contributing to $2 billion in state and local taxes. Some 97% of them are working or are in school. Almost half of all of them are doing BOTH.

    It's always fun to see the desperate arguments. Would be so much easier if they just were honest: you don't want minorities in this country.
    this my sig

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    First Bolded: God I love how hypocritical you are. It makes you look ridiculous in pretty much every thread.

    You are, right now, in another thread saying that the number of Muslims cheering 9/11 that Trump claimed doesn't matter and that the fact that some cheered is the important part.

    Now let's use that same logic on this issue.

    Are some of the DACA people still children? Yes. So according to you that talking point that ending DACA is cruel to poor children is factually correct.

    You don't get to have it both ways. Let me know if the number matters for the factualness of the statement so I can quote you and show how stupid you are in the other thread. Thanks.

    Second Bolded: There's no need to "push" any racist angle. Believe it or not, minorities are not voting for your conservative candidates because Democrats are calling them racist, they are not voting for them because they can see what conservatives are saying and doing.

    For instance, every minority on this site disagrees with you and it has nothing to do with you being called a racist and everything to do with what you post.
    Do yourself a favor and don't expect logic. You're just going to irritate yourself.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    The big push from the far right is now violence. Breitbart, unsurprisingly, has gone with quite the racist angle, painting Dreamers as violent MS-13 members (hilariously, the picture they used was actually one of a group of people opposing MS-13 in El Salvador). There's been a lot of sharing of crime rates among Dreamers. Breitbart, again, posted an article about the 2,139 DACA recipients being convicted or accused of crimes. 2,139 out of 800,000 equals 0.26%. This is about 10x less than the US crime rate. In fact, almost 1 in 3 people have a criminal record. So that's another garbage angle (not that the actions of a tiny minority should render the rest disposable).

    And always, because you can't argue about anything without the conservative "free-loader" angle...there's the argument about how much they get for not being citizens. DACA recipients are ineligible for food stamps, medicaid, SSI, welfare, section 8, obamacare, most financial aide, and so on. Oh, and they pay taxes...contributing to $2 billion in state and local taxes. Some 97% of them are working or are in school. Almost half of all of them are doing BOTH.

    It's always fun to see the desperate arguments. Would be so much easier if they just were honest: you don't want minorities in this country.
    yeah ... those are all dumb arguments on the right... and are used to appeal to the lowest common denominator

    unfortunately... they are as dumb as the arguments on the left that enforcing the US border is racist, that all these DACA individuals are children and somehow "special", "Dreamers" when in reality they are nothing more than a standard cross section of their socio economic group.

    What is even funnier is that you do not even understand the irony of your post when considering the bolded

    Reasonable people can disagree on immigration and border enforcement but leaders of both political parties appeal to the lowest common denominator singling one group out only makes one a patsy.

    Last time I checked The United States is a sovereign Republic... enforcing/defending its borders is the federal governments primary responsibility and duty.

    If you feel strongly on the issue call your rep and tell them to get the fcuk off their ***** and get legislation passed... its their fcuking job... the only problem is solving issues like this don't help them get re-elected which is their primary focus

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