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  1. #61
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    Apr 2009
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    Trading Osuna, Donaldson and Smoak alone can expedite our rebuild so fast, but these guys are going to half *** it. Just like fans embracing the Leafs full on rebuilding, I feel like Jays fans would do the same.
    We already have really good pieces to start of with and if we do everything right this off season in two years we can be a playoff team again.

    But anyways, Cobb is someone I'd go after for that 4th or 5th spot. I really hope they don't resign Estrada and find a more viable long term option. I'd also look at trading Happ if his value is still fairly high.
    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    100 says we win at least 8.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles4Lyfe View Post
    Your on.

    Homerism at its finest

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by LechWalesa View Post
    Right. I get that they are trying to build through the farm and have drafted fairly well the past few years, but this offseason will decide whether or not there's a clear direction. Will the team be willing to make tough decisions by moving Donaldson and Happ? I have my doubts. I hope I'm proven wrong.
    I'm not sure I agree. So if they don't deal some of their best players that makes the direction unclear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  3. #63
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    Aug 2008
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    54,717
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles4Lyfe View Post
    Trading Osuna, Donaldson and Smoak alone can expedite our rebuild so fast, but these guys are going to half *** it. Just like fans embracing the Leafs full on rebuilding, I feel like Jays fans would do the same.
    We already have really good pieces to start of with and if we do everything right this off season in two years we can be a playoff team again.

    But anyways, Cobb is someone I'd go after for that 4th or 5th spot. I really hope they don't resign Estrada and find a more viable long term option. I'd also look at trading Happ if his value is still fairly high.
    Yea I would much rather prefer to trade those guys (maybe not Osuna since he is controllable). Donaldson's return would dramatically enhance this team's core. You can get 2 top 40 prospects quite easily plus probably another top 100 prospect and a few other ones. They'll never do it though, not unless we are really far out of the deadline next year.
    Last edited by Raps08-09 Champ; 09-02-2017 at 04:04 PM.

  4. #64
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I'm not sure I agree. So if they don't deal some of their best players that makes the direction unclear?

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    JamieC, i think youre missing the point, the Direction may be clear as you say, but they are saying how urgent are they? they may be committed to that direction but more interested in selling tickets and merely telling us what they think we want to hear

    if they really are committed to that direction, why worry about holding on to assets that will only diminish in value as time goes on, when if they are moved without regard to ticket sales, the return would only be greater, and more immediate.

    its a valid position one ive held since last offseason as you know. Its one thing to say you believe in a course of action and another entirely to actually follow through with it.

    we have every reason to question whether their priority is selling tickets or being truly competitive in the shortest period of time

    I think most fans prefer honest rebuilds than pseudo contention.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    JamieC, i think youre missing the point, the Direction may be clear as you say, but they are saying how urgent are they? they may be committed to that direction but more interested in selling tickets and merely telling us what they think we want to hear

    if they really are committed to that direction, why worry about holding on to assets that will only diminish in value as time goes on, when if they are moved without regard to ticket sales, the return would only be greater, and more immediate.

    its a valid position one ive held since last offseason as you know. Its one thing to say you believe in a course of action and another entirely to actually follow through with it.

    we have every reason to question whether their priority is selling tickets or being truly competitive in the shortest period of time

    I think most fans prefer honest rebuilds than pseudo contention.
    I'm not missing anything. They have a lot to lose if the brand goes back to where it was 5 years ago. I'm not sure if you get that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #66
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I'm not missing anything. They have a lot to lose if the brand goes back to where it was 5 years ago. I'm not sure if you get that.

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

    I get it but I honestly think their crazy if they repeat what they did last offseason bringing in more veterans just to be pseudo competitive. they arent fooling anyone (well they did last offseason, but hopefully even bomber and twitchy and Kenny Powers, have seen the light)

    The brand depends on keeping the fans interested not in selling them on an inferior product that cant physically compete with their rivals. Tulo isnt finding the fountain of youth nor are Martin or Morales.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    I get it but I honestly think their crazy if they repeat what they did last offseason bringing in more veterans just to be pseudo competitive. they arent fooling anyone (well they did last offseason, but hopefully even bomber and twitchy and Kenny Powers, have seen the light)

    The brand depends on keeping the fans interested not in selling them on an inferior product that cant physically compete with their rivals. Tulo isnt finding the fountain of youth nor are Martin or Morales.
    no they may not find the fountain of youth but you have no other option but to see if they can have a good season in them. They aren't going anywhere and are taking 3 spots in your lineup. There is only so much that can be done with this team this offseason. They already said they're not gonna sell off pieces and will try to compete again. Is it the right thing to do, whos to say.

    Argument can go both ways. Literally everything went wrong this year. Seasons like this don't happen often. And if you don't go for it next year, you are basically screwed with the Yankees potentially flexing their arms in next year's FA draft.

    Good luck trying to compete in a division with the already young and good Yankees and Red Sox teams adding a super start or 2

  8. #68
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    Yes, you've enlightened the masses, mike.

    I'm not doubting that this team is trying to stay "pseudo competitive" and have actually said many times that I would be down with unloading Happ and Donaldson. You seem to forget that this is a business and being "pseudo competeive" means your in the running for the second wild card which generates interest which generates revenue. Do I agree with? Not entirely, but I have no control over how Rogers run their businesses so whatever. But, unlike you, I am going to give stupiro, napkins and co a chance because I trust their drafting and scouting abilities. If that's the light your talking about then no, I haven't seen it

  9. #69
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    Yeah there's no chance they're starting from the ground up. Season ticket prices went up for next year and they're still selling out games this year. I think Shapkins realize that those fans won't be sticking around next year if the same results occur.

  10. #70
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    if theyre adding more patchwork veterans this year and that includes re-signing guys like Liriano and Estrada then how do they realistically expect to compete? everything didnt go wrong for them this year, smoak and Stroman have had career years that far outpace anything theyve ever done before, Devon Travis always gets hurt as does Tulo going back to his days in colorado.and with the oldest Roster in the game, you have to expect injuries especially with Morales tying up the DH slot

    common sense says that the older players arent suddenly going to rejuvinate, sowhat do you expect them to do? We're not getting Stanton thats a pipedream, so while others impovem we just sit and wait for draftpicks to mature? thats still a 5 year proces

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    if theyre adding more patchwork veterans this year and that includes re-signing guys like Liriano and Estrada then how do they realistically expect to compete? everything didnt go wrong for them this year, smoak and Stroman have had career years that far outpace anything theyve ever done before, Devon Travis always gets hurt as does Tulo going back to his days in colorado.and with the oldest Roster in the game, you have to expect injuries especially with Morales tying up the DH slot

    common sense says that the older players arent suddenly going to rejuvinate, sowhat do you expect them to do? We're not getting Stanton thats a pipedream, so while others impovem we just sit and wait for draftpicks to mature? thats still a 5 year proces
    when a team that was in the ALCS return a pretty similar roster and have a total of 2 players putting together great seasons, then yeah a lot has gone wrong.. and again it happens. I've brought up the Giants and Red Sox many times before and how they went from WC winners to bottom of the division teams with rosters have down years and back to the WS a year later

  12. #72
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    Jan 2009
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    Changes For 2018

    This isn't basketball you don't need a complete rebuild. Every year teams make a tweak or two and have complete different years. Look at the D-Backs or even the Dodgers.

  13. #73
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    May 2008
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    11,323
    Next year is basically the bridge year to the Vlad/Bo era in 2019.

    Get some youth on the roster with Hernandez, Alford, and maybe even Pompey getting a shot in the OF.
    SRF and Borucki should see some starts next year in the rotation.

    Jansen/Gurriel/Urena should be among the first call-ups for injuries to the IF.

    Find out which of the young guys can stick next year and are a part of the longterm plan.

    Sign Joe Smith and a good lefty for the pen and it's solid. Sign a SP to a short deal (Estrada/Cobb) and call it an offseason imo.

    Wouldn't mind them selling off JD/Happ/Osuna but it sounds like that isn't going to be the plan unless they're out of it at the trade deadline.

  14. #74
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    Nov 2010
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    4,431
    The hate in here is getting really bad...unfortunately.

    I will state my opinion in a vacuum so I won't reply to any specific message. Here goes what I think:

    This team can and should be a financial bully especially because of how it is difficult to acquire FA's. That said once players come here, very few high profile players force their way out (they realize the tax burden isn't as high as they thought, and the customs are now where near the issue it's perceived to be. Conclusion: try and sign FA. Easier said then done, but it's a valid option

    As for trading Donaldson and Osuna, I agree with both. Donaldson will get a massive contract and (just like Price) I don't like to over pay in the down years of a guys career. This is the year to let him go whether or not you are trying to go for it next year. The deal should be reflective of your direction accordingly. By that I mean, if you are trying for playoffs you are going for MLB ready players, if not you get more "quantity" in lower levels.

    Osuna is too volatile, both mentally and physically. Mentally, I don't want to touch it because I only wish the kid the best. Physically, he will break down. It's not if, it's when. He has had Tommy John and will require another. Players with 2 TJ surgeries don't rebound too well. Conclusion: sell high.

    Take a risk? Yes I have a question mark there. Does trading next to nothing for Stanton's contract make sense? Completely dependant on the direction the team is going. It's impossible for us to play GM (although most think they can do better) without knowing the actual financial constraints placed on the team. This regime has a higher payroll then the previous, how much more is actually available? These things we don't know. Conclusion: taking on a big salary for a young'ish Stanton might not be a bad move. Maybe even throw in a few "prospects" and see if Gordon comes as well. Miami's ownership may not want it, but there are several money deals out there.

    Direction? The direction is clear. We are not on it. So I want to see a clear direction of where my favorite sports team is going in. This past offseason made very little sense to me, and quite frankly, another offseason of gibberish will hurt this team more than a a full rebuild...although I don't think a complete one is necessary.

    Our fans are not fools for the most part, and neither were Leafs fans, what was needed for the Leafs and is needed now for the Jays, is a clear direction.......

    Conclusion: Chasing a 2nd wild card with aging vets is NOT a direction from an Ivy league exec.
    Last edited by TRIUMPHATOR; 09-03-2017 at 08:12 PM.

  15. #75
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    I'm utterly baffled why anyone thinks we are chasing a 2nd wildcard with aging vets. They have been quite transparent in that they are chasing a sustainable championship caliber team with youth. It's just not here yet, because it's been like 2 years. Forget what you see at Rogers center, that's not the future of this team. It's literally just what was there imo.

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    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 09-03-2017 at 08:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

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