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  1. #16
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    about the leadoff hitter thing.. these guys don't really exist in baseball anymore. I mean how many true leadoff hitters are there in the game today?

    the days of Jose Reyes, Pierre, Figgins, brian Roberts, Crawford who were the everyday leadoff hitters with a lot of speed are gone

    Our best bet is probably a guy like Dee Gordon

  2. #17
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    Oct 2008
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    Piscotty and Cobb could be good gets as well as fall back options

  3. #18
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    Dee would be great.

    What do we think it would cost for Stanton? Miami would need a decent package to justrify it to fans.
    Alford, Greene, Tellez, Travis and some filler for Dee and Stanton? Am I even scratching the surface?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber0104 View Post
    about the leadoff hitter thing.. these guys don't really exist in baseball anymore. I mean how many true leadoff hitters are there in the game today?

    the days of Jose Reyes, Pierre, Figgins, brian Roberts, Crawford who were the everyday leadoff hitters with a lot of speed are gone

    Our best bet is probably a guy like Dee Gordon
    Gordon would be a good get for sure. I agree to an extent that the speedsters are a dying breed at the top of a lineup but not entirely. There's still guys like Gordon, Segura, Hamilton, Merrifield, Kiermaier and Revere to name a few. Although I think Revere has been hitting in the 2 spot more so lately. Speed is a big factor but it's also combined with the ability to put the ball in play. The last thing I want from my leadoff hitter is 100K's in a season.

  5. #20
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    Nov 2008
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    28,242
    Haven't we moved past the old school leadoff hitter idea? Guys like that are normally below average hitters. I wouldn't hate the idea of Pearce leading off assuming he starts at DH next year.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mell413 View Post
    Haven't we moved past the old school leadoff hitter idea? Guys like that are normally below average hitters. I wouldn't hate the idea of Pearce leading off assuming he starts at DH next year.
    Some people have but I haven't and never will. Especially considering our offence hasn't been the same since we lost our spark plug 2 years ago. OBP is a nice thing to have at the top of the lineup but I'll take an aggressive hitter with speed 10 times out of 10.

  7. #22
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3:31827131
    Quote Originally Posted by Mell413 View Post
    Haven't we moved past the old school leadoff hitter idea? Guys like that are normally below average hitters. I wouldn't hate the idea of Pearce leading off assuming he starts at DH next year.
    Some people have but I haven't and never will. Especially considering our offence hasn't been the same since we lost our spark plug 2 years ago. OBP is a nice thing to have at the top of the lineup but I'll take an aggressive hitter with speed 10 times out of 10.
    The game has evolved past this line of thinking. To attribute the offense declining to Ben Revere is nonsense. Twitchy already explained this to you a while back so I won't waste the time going through it again. The offense has enough weak spots in it as is. They don't need Revere types. Hopefully the front office has a different approach. I think they do.

  8. #23
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    Jan 2009
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    11,308

    Changes For 2018

    Who was are spark plug?

  9. #24
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    11,308

    Changes For 2018

    Speed is underrated IMO but to me it's just something you need all through your lineup. I can recall a lot situations this year where Morales and his slow *** cost us a run.

  10. #25
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    I'm not sure where to post this, but is Smoak now better/equal to Hosmer?

  11. #26
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut:31827195
    Speed is underrated IMO but to me it's just something you need all through your lineup. I can recall a lot situations this year where Morales and his slow *** cost us a run.
    I don't mind getting better baserunners, but I wouldn't put Revere or someone like that at leadoff simply because they are fast.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    Speed is underrated IMO but to me it's just something you need all through your lineup. I can recall a lot situations this year where Morales and his slow *** cost us a run.
    I think speed is both over rated and under rated these days. in terms of WAR, i think speed and defense are a little overboard. Hitting wins games, and i don't see a huge difference between being on 3rd and 2nd if the batter can hit. I feel like speed is quantifiable by measuring interesting stats like balks committed while on base or errors committed while on base, but to then add them into a **** show stat like WAR is a little much. Needs to be measured separately imo.
    if your fast and good at D but horrible with the bat then you should not be a positive WAR player because while you can help sustain a lead you are not contributing to the actual winning of the game. if the team was full of players like you then that team would just be waiting to lose every game, where as a team full of Morales' would win plenty of games.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mell413 View Post
    The game has evolved past this line of thinking. To attribute the offense declining to Ben Revere is nonsense. Twitchy already explained this to you a while back so I won't waste the time going through it again. The offense has enough weak spots in it as is. They don't need Revere types. Hopefully the front office has a different approach. I think they do.
    All I know is that we fell off a cliff following his departure. Those 1st inning barrages were much harder to come by in 2016. It's not all Revere obviously but losing him played a part in that. No pitcher is going to be thinking about Jose on 1B but every pitcher will be worried about Ben Revere on 1B.

    You don't need to waste your time explaining it to me because you will never convince me that slow power hitting high OBP guys are a better option at leadoff than speedsters who make contact. Hitting leadoff is about getting an early lead, not about getting your best hitter up the most amount of times in a game.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I think speed is both over rated and under rated these days. in terms of WAR, i think speed and defense are a little overboard. Hitting wins games, and i don't see a huge difference between being on 3rd and 2nd if the batter can hit. I feel like speed is quantifiable by measuring interesting stats like balks committed while on base or errors committed while on base, but to then add them into a **** show stat like WAR is a little much. Needs to be measured separately imo.
    if your fast and good at D but horrible with the bat then you should not be a positive WAR player because while you can help sustain a lead you are not contributing to the actual winning of the game. if the team was full of players like you then that team would just be waiting to lose every game, where as a team full of Morales' would win plenty of games.
    This is your big problem. There are ways speed is measured by statistics but there are also benefits that don't show up on the score sheet. Here's a couple off the top of my head:

    1. Speed affects pitchers. As I said in my post above, no pitcher will check on Jose but every pitcher will be thinking about Revere on 1st. This is going to result in quicker action towards the plate which in turn increases the probability of a pitcher making a bad pitch.

    2. Speed affects defence. If you have a speedster on 1st he's going to be held on pretty much every single time which results in a nice big gap to hit the ball into between 1st and 2nd. If a slow poke is on 1st then the 1st baseman can sag off and cover the gap.

  15. #30
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    Jan 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I think speed is both over rated and under rated these days. in terms of WAR, i think speed and defense are a little overboard. Hitting wins games, and i don't see a huge difference between being on 3rd and 2nd if the batter can hit. I feel like speed is quantifiable by measuring interesting stats like balks committed while on base or errors committed while on base, but to then add them into a **** show stat like WAR is a little much. Needs to be measured separately imo.
    if your fast and good at D but horrible with the bat then you should not be a positive WAR player because while you can help sustain a lead you are not contributing to the actual winning of the game. if the team was full of players like you then that team would just be waiting to lose every game, where as a team full of Morales' would win plenty of games.
    Seriously? Referring specifically to the last paragraph.... because you can't win without scoring a run, that's the logic?

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

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