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  1. #196
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Pillar looked good for a while there but unfortunately he fell off a cliff. Zeke was the best option this year aside from Aoki who didn't really get a chance.

    Scoring first is important, I've always preached that. Leading off is all about giving your team the best opportunity to score first not giving your best hitter the most at bats. For two years we've marched a guy with back to back 100+ RBI seasons out in the leadoff spot and now he's looking like he'll have back to back sub 70 RBI seasons. Now obviously Jose has fallen off a cliff but having a "masher" leading off is a waste of RBI. People have gotten so obsessed with the individual numbers game that they think putting a guy who can mash HRs in the leadoff spot all because of his high OBP is a good idea. This guy will be hitting behind the 3 worst hitters in the lineup all game. He's going to be hitting solo shots more times than not but no, RBIs are a meaningless stat that don't matter. Unfortunately they're what win ball games though and putting a power hitter in the leadoff spot is a waste of potential RBI.

    Having the speedster at the top of the lineup creates a ripple effect if they get on base. No pitcher is worried about Jose Bautista on 1B but if Ben Revere is there the last thing you want to do is let him run, or fall down 2-0 to JD being forced into a fastball situation. What if the hit and run is on? Having to go to the stretch right out of the gate can only be frustrating for a starter too. All of these little things and more play a big role on a pitcher if you have a guy like Revere on 1B. If it's Bautista, no biggy.

    The Jays haven't had any good options since Revere's departure but that's no longer an excuse. The type of player we need is affordable. I wonder if the Reds make Billy Hamilton available? His arb clock is ticking and his bat is still weak. I'd still take a flyer on him and hope for the best in leadoff but if not he's perfect for the 9 spot. Pillar for Hamilton maybe? Pillar buys the Reds an extra year of arbitration.
    the thought process is fine, but the execution is bad, Billy Hamilton is a poor hitter period with a lifetime obp of under .300, that hurts your team wherever in the lineup he hits.

    the guy I would look at is Tommy Pham of the cardinals, They have an abundance of outfielders, and at 29 he shouldnt be expensive. He's a year older than hamilton but Pham is a much better overall hitter who runs well and has some pop

  2. #197
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    Jan 2005
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    21,338
    Mike,

    1 mins, 7 seconds of video AND
    6 mins, 47 seconds

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...r-development/
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; Yesterday at 12:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  3. #198
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    Nov 2007
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    1,594
    Nice, thanks for sharing. It kinda does back up my idea that he's more attuned to the business side of development though doesn't it?

    I guess it depends on how comfortable you are with Atkins picking players and Bichette and Pearson both look like wins. The real deciding factor will be how they do in the rounds after number one

    My biggest complaint with him was his patchwork of old veterans that made an already older team, decrepit in a hurry. But he seems to have learned that lesson if the Teoscar Hernandez move is any indication.

    As I said before I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt going forward if he shows a greater understanding of where we are as a team and the overall impact of his moves on the team as a whole. It was obvious to me that the moves last year were totally the opposite of what was needed. And it had devastating results on the product. Morales, Pearce, Howell and Salty were indefensible. Bautista I didn't like, but there was an emotional debt at play there so I can accept that.

    I just think his whole off-season catalogue last year was poorly conceived and foolish. Maybe it wasn't him at all and it was all Rogers driven. It is possible, but if so I hope he uses it to drive home to the board that they should have little say in player acquisitions.

    as an aside I just finished Kirk Radomski's book Bases Loaded: The Inside Story of the Steroid Era in Baseball
    If you want a copy pm me.it was good
    Last edited by mikepelfrey; Yesterday at 03:04 PM.

  4. #199
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    Nov 2007
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    1,594
    interesting comments in todays NY Post from Shapiro:

    “I texted Cash after the first time we played them this year, so you know I am not jumping on a bandwagon,” Blue Jays president Mark Shapiro said. “I told him that he had done a remarkable job of making a plan, executing the plan and sticking with it. They are going to be good for a long time.”

    "When a big-market team builds around home-grown talent it provides the potential for it to gain a significant competitive advantage,” Shapiro said.

    Namely, that would come by providing more dollars to target specific big-ticket items, which could become more relevant after the 2018 season when Bryce Harper and Manny Machado are due to become free agents.

    The only Blue Jay currently expected to be a regular next year at 28-and-under is oft-injured second baseman Devon Travis. In Bo Bichette and Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Toronto has two of the better position prospects in the game, but both are more likely to begin to make an impact in 2019 than ’18. And continuing to grow the system is perhaps Shapiro’s main priority.

    He sees it. He plays in a division not only with the Yankees, but a Red Sox squad with a positional core that includes Andrew Benintendi, Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts, Jackie Bradley Jr. and Rafael Devers, who all played at 27 or younger this year.

  5. #200
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    Jan 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    Nice, thanks for sharing. It kinda does back up my idea that he's more attuned to the business side of development though doesn't it?

    I guess it depends on how comfortable you are with Atkins picking players and Bichette and Pearson both look like wins. The real deciding factor will be how they do in the rounds after number one

    My biggest complaint with him was his patchwork of old veterans that made an already older team, decrepit in a hurry. But he seems to have learned that lesson if the Teoscar Hernandez move is any indication.

    As I said before I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt going forward if he shows a greater understanding of where we are as a team and the overall impact of his moves on the team as a whole. It was obvious to me that the moves last year were totally the opposite of what was needed. And it had devastating results on the product. Morales, Pearce, Howell and Salty were indefensible. Bautista I didn't like, but there was an emotional debt at play there so I can accept that.

    I just think his whole off-season catalogue last year was poorly conceived and foolish. Maybe it wasn't him at all and it was all Rogers driven. It is possible, but if so I hope he uses it to drive home to the board that they should have little say in player acquisitions.

    as an aside I just finished Kirk Radomski's book Bases Loaded: The Inside Story of the Steroid Era in Baseball
    If you want a copy pm me.it was good
    i feel like you don't understand the significance of the two markers that i pointed you to in that audio. all the railing you do regarding this regime is totally contradicted at those two points and it's something they've repeatedly said over and over.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i feel like you don't understand the significance of the two markers that i pointed you to in that audio. all the railing you do regarding this regime is totally contradicted at those two points and it's something they've repeatedly said over and over.
    NO I get what he was saying but therein lies the problem, what he said wasnt what they did. this was all AFTER THE FACT.....

    the fact of the matter is that he's making excuses for what the outcomes
    were. outcomes that he in a large measure HE HIMSELF caused

    locking himself into Morales caused alot of his problems

    and he's being imcredibly SELF-SERVING. look at the date September 23, 2017, this was all about covering his *** after the fact. after all his moves blew up in his face.

    He said its hard to make trades, but Cashman did it. so it certainly is possible to do but he chose not to try . cashman tore apart his roster last july. At the time, there was no Judge, Sanchez was in the Minors after making the team on opening day only to fail the first month so bad that the had to send him down to regain his confidence. Severino was 1-8 as a starter and he was sent to the bullpen.

    what Cashman did was make hard choices. Last july he told his owners, we're 4 games over .500 and we show no signs of being a realistic world series competitor, even though they were 52 -48 at the time that he made the decision......

    so dont give me that ********, youre too smart to buy that garbage.....Was cashman lucky. obviously he was, he even said going in, that 2017 will likely be a rebuilding year, BUT HE STARTED THE PROCESS.

    Shapiro was afraid to do that. he's still saying they want to be competitive next year, what if they are no better than they were this year? that means hes wasted 2 years and his assets are 2 years older and worth wayyyyy less......all because he didnt have the balls to look at his team realistically and makes some hard choices....

    all that article and video is Shapiro covering his *** AFTER THE FACT

    A GM and a CEO are supposed to look at the situation and make these hard choices. anyone with half a brain even without the injuries would tell you even if we were a wild card team, we werent going to get past Boston, Houston or Cleveland. Even at 100% we just arent good enough.

    so dont buy the self-serving bull.

    do you really see this core even if 100% healthy winning the World Series next year? I certainly dont, and I seriously doubt anyone else here does either.

    the Teoscar Hernandez Trade proves it can be done and shapiro needs is to do is find a few more smart deals and quit making excuses. no one is saying its easy, but the first step is easy. admitting to yourself that it needs to be done.

    compare:

    52-48 still in the wild card race with 62 games to go, and cashman says we gotta make some hard choices.
    this year we're 44-56 and shapiro says lets stand pat, and try to win next year.

    the only difference I see is Cashman wasnt afraid to face the steinbrenners, where Shapiro is afraid to stand up to Rogers.

    remember what shapiro said to cashman

    “I texted Cash after the first time we played them this year, so you know I am not jumping on a bandwagon,” Blue Jays president Mark Shapiro said. “I told him that he had done a remarkable job of making a plan, executing the plan and sticking with it. They are going to be good for a long time.”

    Passengershawn was right, Chong, wamco, and a few others too, dont buy the self serving bull.
    Last edited by mikepelfrey; Yesterday at 11:13 PM.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    NO I get what he was saying but therein lies the problem, what he said wasnt what they did. this was all AFTER THE FACT.....

    the fact of the matter is that he's making excuses for what the outcomes
    were. outcomes that he in a large measure HE HIMSELF caused

    locking himself into Morales caused alot of his problems

    and he's being imcredibly SELF-SERVING. look at the date September 23, 2017, this was all about covering his *** after the fact. after all his moves blew up in his face.

    He said its hard to make trades, but Cashman did it. so it certainly is possible to do but he chose not to try . cashman tore apart his roster last july. At the time, there was no Judge, Sanchez was in the Minors after making the team on opening day only to fail the first month so bad that the had to send him down to regain his confidence. Severino was 1-8 as a starter and he was sent to the bullpen.

    what Cashman did was make hard choices. Last july he told his owners, we're 4 games over .500 and we show no signs of being a realistic world series competitor, even though they were 52 -48 at the time that he made the decision......

    so dont give me that ********, youre too smart to buy that garbage.....Was cashman lucky. obviously he was, he even said going in, that 2017 will likely be a rebuilding year, BUT HE STARTED THE PROCESS.

    Shapiro was afraid to do that. he's still saying they want to be competitive next year, what if they are no better than they were this year? that means hes wasted 2 years and his assets are 2 years older and worth wayyyyy less......all because he didnt have the balls to look at his team realistically and makes some hard choices....

    all that article and video is Shapiro covering his *** AFTER THE FACT

    A GM and a CEO are supposed to look at the situation and make these hard choices. anyone with half a brain even without the injuries would tell you even if we were a wild card team, we werent going to get past Boston, Houston or Cleveland. Even at 100% we just arent good enough.

    so dont buy the self-serving bull.

    do you really see this core even if 100% healthy winning the World Series next year? I certainly dont, and I seriously doubt anyone else here does either.

    the Teoscar Hernandez Trade proves it can be done and shapiro needs is to do is find a few more smart deals and quit making excuses. no one is saying its easy, but the first step is easy. admitting to yourself that it needs to be done.

    compare:

    52-48 still in the wild card race with 62 games to go, and cashman says we gotta make some hard choices.
    this year we're 44-56 and shapiro says lets stand pat, and try to win next year.

    the only difference I see is Cashman wasnt afraid to face the steinbrenners, where Shapiro is afraid to stand up to Rogers.

    remember what shapiro said to cashman

    “I texted Cash after the first time we played them this year, so you know I am not jumping on a bandwagon,” Blue Jays president Mark Shapiro said. “I told him that he had done a remarkable job of making a plan, executing the plan and sticking with it. They are going to be good for a long time.”

    Passengershawn was right, Chong, wamco, and a few others too, dont buy the self serving bull.
    With all due respect Mike I won't be engaging in this conversation again in the future

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  8. #203
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Rogers Centre
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    16,498
    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    NO I get what he was saying but therein lies the problem, what he said wasnt what they did. this was all AFTER THE FACT.....

    the fact of the matter is that he's making excuses for what the outcomes
    were. outcomes that he in a large measure HE HIMSELF caused

    locking himself into Morales caused alot of his problems

    and he's being imcredibly SELF-SERVING. look at the date September 23, 2017, this was all about covering his *** after the fact. after all his moves blew up in his face.

    He said its hard to make trades, but Cashman did it. so it certainly is possible to do but he chose not to try . cashman tore apart his roster last july. At the time, there was no Judge, Sanchez was in the Minors after making the team on opening day only to fail the first month so bad that the had to send him down to regain his confidence. Severino was 1-8 as a starter and he was sent to the bullpen.

    what Cashman did was make hard choices. Last july he told his owners, we're 4 games over .500 and we show no signs of being a realistic world series competitor, even though they were 52 -48 at the time that he made the decision......

    so dont give me that ********, youre too smart to buy that garbage.....Was cashman lucky. obviously he was, he even said going in, that 2017 will likely be a rebuilding year, BUT HE STARTED THE PROCESS.

    Shapiro was afraid to do that. he's still saying they want to be competitive next year, what if they are no better than they were this year? that means hes wasted 2 years and his assets are 2 years older and worth wayyyyy less......all because he didnt have the balls to look at his team realistically and makes some hard choices....

    all that article and video is Shapiro covering his *** AFTER THE FACT

    A GM and a CEO are supposed to look at the situation and make these hard choices. anyone with half a brain even without the injuries would tell you even if we were a wild card team, we werent going to get past Boston, Houston or Cleveland. Even at 100% we just arent good enough.

    so dont buy the self-serving bull.

    do you really see this core even if 100% healthy winning the World Series next year? I certainly dont, and I seriously doubt anyone else here does either.

    the Teoscar Hernandez Trade proves it can be done and shapiro needs is to do is find a few more smart deals and quit making excuses. no one is saying its easy, but the first step is easy. admitting to yourself that it needs to be done.

    compare:

    52-48 still in the wild card race with 62 games to go, and cashman says we gotta make some hard choices.
    this year we're 44-56 and shapiro says lets stand pat, and try to win next year.

    the only difference I see is Cashman wasnt afraid to face the steinbrenners, where Shapiro is afraid to stand up to Rogers.

    remember what shapiro said to cashman

    “I texted Cash after the first time we played them this year, so you know I am not jumping on a bandwagon,” Blue Jays president Mark Shapiro said. “I told him that he had done a remarkable job of making a plan, executing the plan and sticking with it. They are going to be good for a long time.”

    Passengershawn was right, Chong, wamco, and a few others too, dont buy the self serving bull.
    Mike, what was the one thing in common about all the players (minus Andrew Miller) Cashman traded away? They were rentals! It's pretty easy to stock the farm with rentals who are killing it too. Unfortunately we didn't have that luxury. I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that if Estrada was his regular self that he'd be in another uniform right now and the return would've been huge. Beltran brought in Tate, Chapman brought in Torres and one of the guys who came in for Nova was flipped in the CWS deal this year. None of our rentals were performing this year.

    The Andrew Miller trade is the only one that stands out and yes, it's looking like an excellent trade. Shapkins have yet to do that but both years at the deadline they reacted appropriately and pulled off some excellent deals to help the team ASAP. Teoscar could very well be a starter in the OF next year.

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