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  1. #1
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    Apr 2009
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    The Key to the Raiders becoming a good defense

    With the pre season in its 3rd week and the season itself closely approaching, which position and which player from what you have seen in the games do you think we need to improve the most for this defense to really take the next step and why?

    POSITION - Defensive Line/Nose Tackle.

    PLAYER - Justin Ellis.

    WHY - With the style of defense we play and the fronts we run, for me the NT position has to be a dominant/Immovable force that is selfless and able to take on double teams and not get knocked off the line of scrimmage so others can make tackles. Ellis is never able to stay off the ground, let alone take on double teams. When defending the pass I like to see big, strong NT's bull rush the offensive linemen back into the QB rather than try to spin or evade blockers and take themselves out of a play, leave that to the Irvin's and Mack's. To be fair it has not only been Ellis who has done this, Vanderdoes and others have also done this, so maybe it is something they are being asked to do in pre season games. Our offensive line has set the stage for pushing defensive Linemen around, now it's time to see a physical side from our interior DL by them pushing Offensive Linemen around for us to become a dominant defense. In my opinion Ellis is not the player we need at that position.A perfect example of what I am talking about is Linval Joseph NT for the Minnesota Vikings. Even though they have great pass rushers, DB's and Linebackers, Joseph for me is the not only the best player on their team, he is the cog that lets everything else work on their defense.
    Last edited by PHIL MAGROIN; 08-25-2017 at 11:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    1,377
    Agreed. We need a Vince Wilfork type.

    It's still unclear if Conley and Obi will help with the secondary. If they run around in complete confusion like the current guys do, their skill will be of little use. (Looking at coaching)

    I do like what I've seen from LBs 57 and 58. James and Adams. They're hustling and making plays. LB MIGHT be a tad better this year.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Central California
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    6,767
    I know that some of you study this a lot but here's a take from a middle of the road observer, It seems that we are trying to break down the notion of what the responsibilities are for defensive players by position in a traditional sense. That would also mean that we are attempting to build a hybrid defense of some type, maybe even reinventing how things would look/work in an attempt to be the next defense that no one could stop. I remember the 46 in Chicago and it's stymied effect on almost everyone's offense. I also acknowledge that there were talents beyond the scheme on that defense but maybe that's why we are so puzzled about where our defense is at...
    "..When you have great coaches, then after you have great coaches you get great players, you have a great organization, and you tell them one thing-

    Just win baby"

    ~ Al Davis ~

  4. #4
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    Apr 2009
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    Use the template fellas...

    POSITION -

    PLAYER -

    WHY -

  5. #5
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    Apr 2009
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    Back in the days a team could run a base Defense through the entire game, now football is so situational it's impossible to run them.For me if a Defense cannot stop the run they are going to see it all day. No point having great pass rushers and great Cover guys if you cannot stop the run. We cannot stop the run in base Defense and Ellis is the problem to me.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    The Garden of Eden...New Jersey
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    13,745

    The Key to the Raiders becoming a good defense

    Carr, QB, he has the most control over games in which we'll very likely need to consistently outscore our opponents.

    Overly simplistic, but true.

    -Stork
    "Win some games, make the playoffs and show me you got some balls under the bright lights"

    -tippa irie

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,288
    All I'm going to say is if we are as bad defensively as we were last season we better be able to force turnovers again. If we can't then that's when the real issue will crop up.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greenville, NC
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    446
    LB

    Marquell Lee

    He's a rookie and should get better, however his "strength" was supposed to be in run support but he's consistently getting pushed back and can't seem to get off blocks once engaged. His pass pro is meh that was never his strength anyway. I hope he gets better, and as I said he is a rookie so I'm not expecting perfection right away.

  9. #9
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    Mar 2013
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    We don't just have a player problem we have a coaching problem, that is putting the wrong players in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fix the coaching it's been the problem all along.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Bakersfield, CA
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    1,670
    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector View Post
    We don't just have a player problem we have a coaching problem, that is putting the wrong players in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fix the coaching it's been the problem all along.
    Agreed!

    Position - defensive coordinator
    Player - Ken Norton Jr.
    Why - is he so confused by opposing offenses? Why - does he have the wrong defensive sets to match up with an offense? Why - are players constantly out of position and lost on the field? Why - is he still the DC?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
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    544
    Position: DE-LB

    Player: Khalil Mack

    You find a player with special abilities and build around him. I like to start with a down lineman or a front 7 guy. We have both in Mack. I strongly believe we have the best defensive player in The NFL bar none. I will put him above a healthy Watt or Miller all day everyday! Mack has the potential to be a HOF player and Raider great. We just need to fill in the pieces around him.

    I don't think some of our recent defensive picks have been healthy enough, nor played long enough to really gauge.

    Karl Joseph I think at the least barring injury will be a solid pick for years to come. Eddie Vanderdoes has uber potential and is being raved about in camp. Ward and Edwards Jr have shown flashes of potential. Connley has yet to play, and Obi is a eyebrow raiser.

    No shame in having our identity based offensively. We have one terrific unit in that. While I value defense and don't think championships can be had with one that does not break I don't think we need to be the best in the league to win a championship. You do something and do it well......Raiders do offense baby!

  12. #12
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    Apr 2007
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    Still1Ballin's basement
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    24,451
    Sign Ahmad Brooks!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cykoraider View Post
    Agreed!

    Position - defensive coordinator
    Player - Ken Norton Jr.
    Why - is he so confused by opposing offenses? Why - does he have the wrong defensive sets to match up with an offense? Why - are players constantly out of position and lost on the field? Why - is he still the DC?
    This x 100

  14. #14
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    Mar 2007
    Location
    Corona, Ca
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    10,566
    DT

    Eddie Vanderdoes

    We are asking a lot of a 3rd round rookie but I think Vanderdoes is the key to our defense getting better. Far too many times last year teams ran the ball up the middle and/or were able to step up in the pocket because of a lack of penetration from the middle of the defense. I believe Vanderdoes has the most potential, out of any of our interior lineman, to be a disruption in the backfield. If he can do this it will allow better run defense from our LBs and keep QBs honest in the pocket allowing for more opportunities from outside rush.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    244
    This echoes what I've been saying all along. I wanted the Raiders to take a d-tackle in the 1st round for the very reason that I thought the d-backs looked bad simply because the d-line was not freeing up the linebackers to make plays. Justin Ellis was injured for most of last season, so I can't say he was the problem.

    The Raiders need a tackle who is a run-stuffer and lane-clogger, but also a tackle alongside him as an inside rusher. The narrative from the sports media is about any defense favors the idea of an edge rusher. Basically, every defense simply needs two or three players that can produce 8+ sacks each and don't need to rely on blitzing or being a one-dimensional rusher who relies on speed rather than technique or tools. Then, surround the rushers with legitimate starters. The rushers, typically, are on the edges, but occasionally ... there's a d-tackle who can be the rusher (like Aaron Donald). I think Eddie Vanderdoes is more likely to be the run-stuffer/lane clogger, while Justin Ellis should be his backup. Jihad Ward and Trevyon Hester are better prospects to fill the 3-technique spot (inside rusher), while Darius Latham would line up on the edge as a backup to Khalil Mack. As it is, Ellis and Vanderdoes are listed as the starters.

    The Raiders defense also needs to know how to blend the bump-and-run with zone coverage. David Amerson, Karl Joseph, and Obi Melifonwu can handle the bump-and-run. Gareon Conley was more of a zone corner at Ohio State, but he has the tools to play man coverage. But, in the nickel and dime packages, the Raiders have Shalom Luani, TJ Carrie, Breon Borders, and Reggie Nelson. The Raiders need to understand how to maximize the talent of their personnel with a playbook that mixes bump-and-run as the primary defense while playing zone in nickel and dime packages, because that is much less confusing and complex for the defensive-backs.

    Also, what is everyone else's take on the idea that the Raiders should sign Ahmad Brooks to play the weak-side, or at least, to come in as a rush-specialist?

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