Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Annapolis MD
    Posts
    12,348

    Make a case for Mike Mussina

    Mike Mussina is one of my favorite players, one who I feel should be in the HOF. Voters are slowly coming around- in his fourth year on the ballot, Mussina had 51.8% of the vote, after starting around 20%. As the thread title indicates, make a case for Mike Mussina to get into the Hall of Fame.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,769
    Him and schilling should both be in

    Sent from my SPH-L520 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    49,545
    He simply should be


    He is an obvious choice

    24th all time in rWAR? Come on

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    27,646
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    He simply should be


    He is an obvious choice

    24th all time in rWAR? Come on
    Maybe he garners more support now that the votes are public. One can hope because he definitely belongs in.
    Last edited by metswon69; 08-25-2017 at 01:36 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    21,457
    Mussina defensively seems to lose out based on the eye test. I remember as a Jays fan who saw him repeatedly I honestly never felt like damn we've got Mussina tomorrow. The numbers will eventually get him there though.

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    22,885
    my best arguments are:

    1. Don Sutton
    2. Gaylord Perry
    3. Rube Marquard
    4. Ted Lyons
    5. Clark Griffith
    6. Waite Hoyt
    7. Hoyt Wilhelm
    8. Herb Pennock
    9. Bruce Sutter
    10. Bert Blyleven

    The Prosecution rests your honor

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,511
    Mussina is absolutely a HOF pitcher.

    270 Wins|2,813 Ks|Career 3.68 ERA|82.2 fWAR (17th All Time)

    Mike was my favorite kind of pitcher; he did not rely on throwing it by guys. He utilized breaking pitches and command in and outside of the zone to force batters to make outs. He did not walk guys (career 5.4% BB Rate) and he did what was needed to keep his teams in the game.

    From 1995-2003 he was a certifiable Ace.

    And the man finished his career with a 20-9|3.37 ERA|4.6 fWAR regular season.

    That Mussina does not have a World Series Ring is a travesty and he certainly belongs in the Hall of Fame.
    We’re pointing out that these statistics breed false narratives, and we value the truth. This isn’t about replacing old numbers with new numbers, or attempting to dissuade anyone from enjoying the aesthetics of the game. It is simply about telling the average fan about the reality of what actually happened on the field. The “Holy Trinity” of baseball statistics fail at this most basic task, and so they are not worth deifying any longer. - Dave Cameron

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bethlehem
    Posts
    35,925
    Quote Originally Posted by infernoscurse View Post
    my best arguments are:

    1. Don Sutton
    2. Gaylord Perry
    3. Rube Marquard
    4. Ted Lyons
    5. Clark Griffith
    6. Waite Hoyt
    7. Hoyt Wilhelm
    8. Herb Pennock
    9. Bruce Sutter
    10. Bert Blyleven

    The Prosecution rests your honor
    I think he should be in the HOF but I hate these arguments. Half these guys you listed were in the HOF before Mussina was even born. Others started their career before he was even born or old enough to even think about being a professional pitcher.

    If you were going to list those 10 pitchers, there are hundreds of pitchers that would deserve to be in the HOF then. It's always been a silly argument.

    Also, IIRC, Blyleven was a guy people thought was snubbed for awhile. I could be mistake but I thought he was talked about it. He's a guy who pitched sooooo much. Durability and availability has to count for something. Him and Perry are top 10 in career fWAR and they are 2 of 6 pitchers with 100+fWAR.

    Pitcher A: 5008.1IP, 6.06 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, .281 BABIP, 3.16 ERA, 3.26 FIP, 1.14 WHIP
    Pitcher B: 4970.0IP, 6.70 K/9, 2.39 BB/9, .282 BABIP, 3.31 ERA, 3.19 FIP. 1.20 WHIP

    One of those is Greg Maddux, the other is Blyleven.
    Last edited by koldjerky; 08-25-2017 at 04:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    31,598
    I always wished he came back for one more year and won the 09 WS with the Yankees.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    La Puente, CA
    Posts
    11,902
    Mussina screwed himself for retiring sooner than he had to. Why the **** do you retire when you're still on top of your game, within reach of 300 wins, and having not won a World Series yet? This is why some of the voters are giving him the shaft and not voting for him.

    Future Hall of Shamers:
    (1) B.A.L.C.O. Barroids (2) Mark McJuicer (3) Jose Chem-seco (4) Rafael Palmeiroids (5) Ken Chem-initi (6) Jason Gi-andro (7) Ryan Fraud (8) Muscle Melk (9) Woman-Ram (10) Shammy Sosa (11) Roger Clear-mens (12) A-Roid (13) Ryan HGHoward

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Annapolis MD
    Posts
    12,348
    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerdave View Post
    Mussina screwed himself for retiring sooner than he had to. Why the **** do you retire when you're still on top of your game, within reach of 300 wins, and having not won a World Series yet? This is why some of the voters are giving him the shaft and not voting for him.
    After 18 years and over 3500 pitched innings just in the regular season, I think Mussina had enough. Can't blame him for retiring after how his last season worked out, either.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    49,545
    Quote Originally Posted by infernoscurse View Post
    my best arguments are:
    So you know
    Mussina was a career 123 ERA+, 3562.2 IP, 82.7 rWAR


    1. Don Sutton
    108 ERA+, 5282.1 IP, 68.7 WAR
    15 less ERA+, 1700 more innings, 15 less rWAR
    2. Gaylord Perry
    117 ERA, 5350 IP, 93.7 rWAR
    6 less ERA+, 1800 less innings, 10 less rWAR
    Should also be in the HOF

    3. Rube Marquard
    103
    4. Ted Lyons
    5. Clark Griffith
    6. Waite Hoyt
    7. Hoyt Wilhelm
    8. Herb Pennock
    9. Bruce Sutter
    10. Bert Blyleven

    The Prosecution rests your honor
    I'll stop there. Because you got Sutter in there, he's a reliever. And Blyleven, an easy hall of famer, and a few other Hall of Famers.


    His comps are Bob Gibson - 127 ERA+, 3884.1 IP, 81.9 rWAR
    Curt Schilling - 127 ERA+, 3261 IP, 80.7 rWAR

    And then guys who threw more innings, but are still comps in some areas - Blylven, Glavine, and Jenkins.

    He is an easy Hall of Famer.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    90,518
    He should be and I think he eventually will be might take him a long time, but he will make it rightfully so.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,220
    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerdave View Post
    Mussina screwed himself for retiring sooner than he had to. Why the **** do you retire when you're still on top of your game, within reach of 300 wins, and having not won a World Series yet? This is why some of the voters are giving him the shaft and not voting for him.
    39 is pretty old I don't consider that retiring early. And also Moose was in record as saying if he was in for 1 year it would have to be 3 and potentially maybe the Yankees wouldn't resign him all 3 years and he wanted family time. So if he pitches those 3 years gets hurt one year and then 3 years turns into 5 years. He made his choice was happy with his career and gotta respect him for that

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    42,844
    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I think he should be in the HOF but I hate these arguments. Half these guys you listed were in the HOF before Mussina was even born. Others started their career before he was even born or old enough to even think about being a professional pitcher.

    If you were going to list those 10 pitchers, there are hundreds of pitchers that would deserve to be in the HOF then. It's always been a silly argument.

    Also, IIRC, Blyleven was a guy people thought was snubbed for awhile. I could be mistake but I thought he was talked about it. He's a guy who pitched sooooo much. Durability and availability has to count for something. Him and Perry are top 10 in career fWAR and they are 2 of 6 pitchers with 100+fWAR.

    Pitcher A: 5008.1IP, 6.06 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, .281 BABIP, 3.16 ERA, 3.26 FIP, 1.14 WHIP
    Pitcher B: 4970.0IP, 6.70 K/9, 2.39 BB/9, .282 BABIP, 3.31 ERA, 3.19 FIP. 1.20 WHIP

    One of those is Greg Maddux, the other is Blyleven.
    There is nothing silly about comparing Mussina to guys in the HOF. While due to the era he pitched in/way he pitched he lacks stats some look for (20 win seasons, K's, very dominant peak).

    Mussina is a candidate based on his career. While I wouldn't put him in the top 1/4 of all SP's all time, he clearly belongs in the 2nd 1/4 - so that means he's easily better than 1/2 of the guys now in the HOF. What other argument does he need?

    Pitchers that pitched most/all of their career after 1988 should not be judged vs pitchers of earlier times on factors like IP and CG. Managers/closers changed the game.

    Mussina is being punished for his rep as being a cold and uncooperative interview. Schilling is being kept out for his politics and his prickly personalty. I hung out with Schilling twice, he's a total A hole, but, he's clearly a HOF pitcher, better than Smoltz, just like Mussina is better than Glavine. Both guys liked by the writers.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •