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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Hayward has only played 9% of his career minutes at the 2. It's not a good fit for him.

    Morris is better equipped to play the 4 than the 5.

    Horford wouldn't play many minutes at the 4 because of athleticism.

    Baynes is going to play 10-15 minutes off the bench for you guys and I would bet you guys don't like him all that much by midseason.
    Yeah I like Hayward better at the 3 than the 2 and Morris at the 4 more than those other small ball guys. I also prefer Horford at the 5 though he played with Olynyk a lot so I think he can play with another big for stretches.

    My starting unit of Irving/Brown/Hayward/Morris/Horford over the one OAK suggested was to best accomodate those preferences. Could also swap Smart/Brown but I wanted the extra ball handler on the bench and the worse one playing with Kyrie/Hayward/Horford to hide that weakness.

    I already don't like Baynes that much lol. I think he'll just be a grinder inside for 15ish minutes and he'll be sufficient at it. Just a guy, nothing special.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  2. #602
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    Cavs should really consider turning around and trading IT now, for multiple first rounders and/or solid young players, then try to trade James for a massive return. Even with his no trade clause, he might accept a trade if they trade IT, hell even trade Love. Force his hand. He'll waive the no trade clause if they trade everyone else good.

    Cavs are no closer to beating GS. In fact, they may be further away. They got the best deal out there for Kyrie, but they aren't gonna win. Keep trading and trade James. He isn't returning. He's going wherever he thinks is the best chance to win. Just like he's done before and like KD did. Get a huge return for him before he walks.

    Imagine the rebuild with the BK pick for Kyrie, picks/young players for IT, picks/young players for Love, and an enormous return for James even though it's only for one year.

    I would love to see the Cavs do this and tell James to go **** himself.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    If I was the Celtics GM I would have done that trade. IT was a serious future problem (let alone his current health issue) and Crowder's role was shrinking. The Celtics were not at all likely to win a title last year and replacing IT/Crowder with Kyrie would be a fairly easy decision ... not guaranteed success, but a decision I would have made. It's also entirely likely that IT's production drops a lot on the Cavs and Kyrie's efficiency goes way up on the Celtics.

    The player part of the deal favors the Celtics I think ... the pick is the real cost, and frankly, the Celtics don't really NEED the pick ... they have too many draft picks, and while that one was valuable, it was an okay price to pay.
    I asked going into the playoffs and IT potential future contract was your first response. they just traded just finished 5th in MVP voting and a solid starting SF. Sorry but the player side doesn't favor the Celtics. Did they avoid playing IT? Yeah. Might that be a good long term move? Yep but that not what I am arguing.
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  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Kyrie, is not elite. He scores the ball exceptionally well. He literally does nothing else well, in fact is very bad at a handful of other things. He, and IT, are the worst defenders at the position for the better PG's in the game, no argument. Irving absorbs a ton of possessions, dribbles excessively, passes on barely over 1/4 of his drives, and is basically a black hole, who if he is hitting, is awesome offensively, if he isn't, he is a total negative on the floor, due to his lack of defense, rebounding, and distribution. Irving is absolutely not a top 20 player in the game.

    Crowder is nothing special, but he is what you need facing GS. A low usage, three point shooting wing who won't command the ball, and can match up with Durant, or Klay (or Iggy). He basically upgrades what they were trying to get from Richard Jefferson in a big way. Of course he was a throw away for Boston, they aren't getting a lower grade from me because of Crowder, they are getting it because they tossed away a huge asset in the Nets pick, and I frankly don't think much of Irving.

    You're welcome for the input.
    That's the killer for me too. Though not as strongly for you. I don't think they "tossed away" an asset. They got Kyrie. Straight up, I think that's fair. Not the biggest Kyrie fan and he for sure has flaws but the BRK pick is a crapshoot where it lands to a degree and then the player himself is an uncertainty as well. So I'm fine with trading the BRK pick for a Kyrie type player, flaws and all.

    This issue for me is, they didn't just trade for a Kyrie player. They traded to upgrade from IT to Kyrie. Big difference. And while I love that move long-term, it's still a lot of value to give up for marginal short-term upgrade.

    Crowder/Zizic are relatively inconsequential to me but when you throw them in as well, it makes me feel even worse.

    I really like having Kyrie and love that he's young enough to develop with our other young guys. I just think it was too much to give up to upgrade from IT to him.

    If Bradley were still here and we traded him instead of IT in the deal, then dealt IT elsewhere for value I'd be in love with this.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Cavs should really consider turning around and trading IT now, for multiple first rounders and/or solid young players, then try to trade James for a massive return. Even with his no trade clause, he might accept a trade if they trade IT, hell even trade Love. Force his hand. He'll waive the no trade clause if they trade everyone else good.

    Cavs are no closer to beating GS. In fact, they may be further away. They got the best deal out there for Kyrie, but they aren't gonna win. Keep trading and trade James. He isn't returning. He's going wherever he thinks is the best chance to win. Just like he's done before and like KD did. Get a huge return for him before he walks.

    Imagine the rebuild with the BK pick for Kyrie, picks/young players for IT, picks/young players for Love, and an enormous return for James even though it's only for one year.

    I would love to see the Cavs do this and tell James to go **** himself.
    The Cavs are an injury to either Durant/Curry away from being favorites though. You can't toss away a real opportunity away from competing for a ring. You just can't. They can easily rebuild after LeBron leaves, if he does, with how they set themselves up now.

    And what are you really getting for IT? He is an expiring, 5 foot nothing PG who wants a max deal going into his 30's. He won't get you much.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #606
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    Love the trade for Cleveland. IT and irving are so close to the same guy lol. Both score first PG's although IT is a much more willing passer. Both good shooters, finishers, FT shooters, bad defedners lol. I would take Irving over Thomas but man its soooo close.

    But the Cavs also get crowder who is a good defender. Thats huge when they play the Warriors in finals. Plus a young talented center and a projected lottery pick. Dang.

    I don't cavs are done either. More moves could be made. Love this new FO.
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    Morris twins head to court in August. They could get jail time.
    what for?
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  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy View Post
    Love the trade for Cleveland. IT and irving are so close to the same guy lol. Both score first PG's although IT is a much more willing passer. Both good shooters, finishers, FT shooters, bad defedners lol. I would take Irving over Thomas but man its soooo close.

    But the Cavs also get crowder who is a good defender. Thats huge when they play the Warriors in finals. Plus a young talented center and a projected lottery pick. Dang.

    I don't cavs are done either. More moves could be made. Love this new FO.
    Yeah i think Crowder over Shumpert/Jefferson will be huge. If you guys want to win it all you need Lebron to commit to defense and stop Durant though. Crowder is NOT that guy (see his defense vs. Lebron in our past matchups). He's just not that good on that end. But he can help for stretches so Lebron doesn't need to do it full time. If Lebron wants another ring he will ultimately need to though.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Kyrie, is not elite. He scores the ball exceptionally well. He literally does nothing else well, in fact is very bad at a handful of other things. He, and IT, are the worst defenders at the position for the better PG's in the game, no argument. Irving absorbs a ton of possessions, dribbles excessively, passes on barely over 1/4 of his drives, and is basically a black hole, who if he is hitting, is awesome offensively, if he isn't, he is a total negative on the floor, due to his lack of defense, rebounding, and distribution. Irving is absolutely not a top 20 player in the game.

    Crowder is nothing special, but he is what you need facing GS. A low usage, three point shooting wing who won't command the ball, and can match up with Durant, or Klay (or Iggy). He basically upgrades what they were trying to get from Richard Jefferson in a big way. Of course he was a throw away for Boston, they aren't getting a lower grade from me because of Crowder, they are getting it because they tossed away a huge asset in the Nets pick, and I frankly don't think much of Irving.

    You're welcome for the input.
    Great. No one agrees with you. Irving's not a Top 20 player? NBA players, coaches, GM's, analysts, you name 'em. They all know he's a Top 20 player....easily. Fratello (who..uh..knows more about hoops than you) said Irving was the best PG in the NBA last night. Over Westbrook and Steph. But you say he's one-dimentional and apparently, at 25 years old and with a new organization and a new coach, will never improve at anything else. Ever.

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishkabibble View Post
    Great. No one agrees with you. Irving's not a Top 20 player? NBA players, coaches, GM's, analysts, you name 'em. They all know he's a Top 20 player....easily. Fratello (who..uh..knows more about hoops than you) said Irving was the best PG in the NBA last night. Over Westbrook and Steph. But you say he's one-dimentional and apparently, at 25 years old and with a new organization and a new coach, will never improve at anything else. Ever.
    That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard TBH. Curry and Westbrook are better. Not to mention CP3. There's a big tier with Kyrie is with Lillard, Lowry, and some others.

    PROCESSING

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    what for?
    They were part of a beat down to some dude at a night club the other year. Not sure or not but could be jail time or couple games suspension maybe by the league or just a fine hard to say.

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Simply stating IT is better than Kyrie shows your lack of knowledge. Don't get me wrong, IT is very good. Kyrie is better. Stating that Hayward isn't an upgrade over Bradley because Bradley's "tough" is a joke, Hayward is worlds better. Crowder is replaced by Morris who's the same exact player.

    How did we punt? We didn't. We got better now and in the future in one trade and one FA signing.
    I'd say Crowder is better than Morris but Kyrie is better than IT and Hatward is way better than Bradley. Boston had a great off season.

  13. #613
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    Jumping into a thread 613 posts in...

    I think it's a good trade for both teams but am way more impressed that Cleveland was able to pull it off than Boston. Boston watched Jimmy, PG and Boogie all go for what look like absolute bargains now compared to this. Stingy for too long. Still, they got the best player in the deal and have created a really interesting team. Cleveland on the other hand really had no leverage and seemed to be striking out everywhere they were looking. And then suddenly they got Boston to give up this haul? It's weird. Again, I think it's fine for both teams, but I think Boston misplayed their hand in the long run.

    As a LeBron fan, and by default an adopted Cleveland fan, I'm ready to embrace IT. Kyrie was always meh to me, but IT has a great personality and seems like a genuinely nice and good dude. I'm excited.
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  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    That's the killer for me too. Though not as strongly for you. I don't think they "tossed away" an asset. They got Kyrie. Straight up, I think that's fair. Not the biggest Kyrie fan and he for sure has flaws but the BRK pick is a crapshoot where it lands to a degree and then the player himself is an uncertainty as well. So I'm fine with trading the BRK pick for a Kyrie type player, flaws and all.

    This issue for me is, they didn't just trade for a Kyrie player. They traded to upgrade from IT to Kyrie. Big difference. And while I love that move long-term, it's still a lot of value to give up for marginal short-term upgrade.

    Crowder/Zizic are relatively inconsequential to me but when you throw them in as well, it makes me feel even worse.

    I really like having Kyrie and love that he's young enough to develop with our other young guys. I just think it was too much to give up to upgrade from IT to him.

    If Bradley were still here and we traded him instead of IT in the deal, then dealt IT elsewhere for value I'd be in love with this.
    I can agree with all of this. The upgrade from IT, to Irving, is not worth the cost to me.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  15. #615
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    I feel the Cavs are missing out big time if they don't trade that pick for an all star and go all in for this year.
    https://s26.postimg.org/a20wgmf49/20969116_474690526257462_6125363099198291968_n.jpg

    Looks good in that wine and gold, CavsNation were coming!!!!

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