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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I agree.
    That's why I am tipping my hat.
    Yeah. It would be disingenuous to say everyone knew Murph's hot hand would continue. But it's also wrong to say it began in Washington.

    A lot of people were saying the Mets should pony up based on what we saw in Los Angeles and Cbicago in the post season. I wasn't one of them. How many times have we seen a batter get hot for a month or two following a new stance, a new approach, only to see him return to previous levels?

    You can't always know these things.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I am of the belief that player development is a huge part of a franchise success and is on going, while some don't. They believe their talent isn't cultivated but is in fact independent of who is teaching them.
    Nature vs. nurture. I will take that bet, Mortimer.

    The usual dollar I presume?

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    Nah, I don't think they have anything to do with it. I give Long 5% of the credit for probably giving him a tip that helped his swing mechanically to get in front and lift the ball. I give Murphy the other 95% of the credit for executing and perfecting his craft. Murphy would be raking no matter where he played, but I think Long helped him just a bit and there is a good reason why to believe it due to the context of the adjustments Murphy made aligning with the type of hitting coach Long is. Still, it's mostly Murphy. It usually is mostly about the player, not the coach.
    Yeah, that dude is beast working at his craft, but that 5% Long may have helped him out with sure made a big difference.


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  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Aug/September-.296/.321/.533/.854

    2016-.347/.390/.595/.985
    that's .131 difference

    2017-.321/.382/.546/.928
    .074 difference

    Thanks for illustrating my point.

    The Nationals did nothing to further Justin Turner's career. I think that you should only tip your cap to them for Murphy.
    The point was to combine Murphy's numbers from August/September and the postseason together.

    I'm too lazy to do the math, but I'm sure those numbers are closer to what he's done over the last two seasons.

    I brought up Turner because his adjustments started on the Mets just like Murphy.

    They both had a full offseason to perfect their craft heading to their new teams.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 09-13-2017 at 03:51 PM.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Yeah. It would be disingenuous to say everyone knew Murph's hot hand would continue. But it's also wrong to say it began in Washington.

    A lot of people were saying the Mets should pony up based on what we saw in Los Angeles and Cbicago in the post season. I wasn't one of them. How many times have we seen a batter get hot for a month or two following a new stance, a new approach, only to see him return to previous levels?

    You can't always know these things.
    He preformed 125 to 75 points higher (ops), that's the difference between an average to a good player. A good player to a great player. His career here was a solid one, his two years in Washington have been great. This year his walk rate has increased, so he has become more patient and still producing at a high rate.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    Nature vs. nurture. I will take that bet, Mortimer.

    The usual dollar I presume?
    That man is a product of a poor environment. There's nothing wrong with him, I can prove it.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    The point was to combine Murphy's numbers from August/September and the postseason together.

    I'm too lazy to do the math, but I'm sure those numbers are closer to what he's done over the last two seasons.

    I brought up Turner because his adjustments started on the Mets just like Murphy.

    They both had a full offseason to perfect their craft heading to their new teams.
    He was Ruthian for 5 games in the postseason. He was awful in the WS.

    It's ok to acknowledge that other franchises are quite good at developing talent. The Cardinals are just flat out awesome at teaching kids how to become ball players.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    He preformed 125 to 75 points higher (ops), that's the difference between an average to a good player. A good player to a great player. His career here was a solid one, his two years in Washington have been great. This year his walk rate has increased, so he has become more patient and still producing at a high rate.
    For two months here and for most of the 2015 post season, he was great.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    He was Ruthian for 5 games in the postseason. He was awful in the WS.

    It's ok to acknowledge that other franchises are quite good at developing talent. The Cardinals are just flat out awesome at teaching kids how to become ball players.
    His World Series performance doesn't nullify what he did to pracgtically single handedly carry the team into the post season. Thing is, he showed us what he was capable of doing. In Washington, he showed he was capable of sustaining it.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  10. #175
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    Rosario and Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    He was Ruthian for 5 games in the postseason. He was awful in the WS.

    It's ok to acknowledge that other franchises are quite good at developing talent. The Cardinals are just flat out awesome at teaching kids how to become ball players.
    Ignoring those 5 games because it suits your argument seems pretty pointless. Overall, he performed at an exceptional level in the postseason.

    Okay now I'm no longer too lazy to crunch the numbers.

    Murphy hit .304/.337/.576 (.913 OPS) with 21 doubles, 2 triples, 15 homers, 15 walks, and 27 strikeouts in 257 AB from August to the end of the postseason.

    Those numbers are almost identical to what he's done on the Nationals with exception to BABIP. So there you have it, the Nationals didn't magically make Murphy an elite hitter. The transformation happened right under the Mets' watch.

  11. #176
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    Rosario and Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    His World Series performance doesn't nullify what he did to pracgtically single handedly carry the team into the post season. Thing is, he showed us what he was capable of doing. In Washington, he showed he was capable of sustaining it.
    Ummm....he didn't "single handedly" carry the team TO the postseason.

    I would say he carried us through his playoff game stretch...


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  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by n8ghee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    His World Series performance doesn't nullify what he did to pracgtically single handedly carry the team into the post season. Thing is, he showed us what he was capable of doing. In Washington, he showed he was capable of sustaining it.
    Ummm....he didn't "single handedly" carry the team TO the postseason.

    I would say he carried us through his playoff game stretch...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    lol I meant carry us into the WS. My bad
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Yeah, that dude is beast working at his craft, but that 5% Long may have helped him out with sure made a big difference.


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    I think its a lot more than 5%. Clearly Long found something in Murphy's swing that allowed him to turn his ability to make contact into an ability to make contact and hit for considerably more power.

    All you need to look at is his time with the Yankees and what he was able to do with Curtis Granderson.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I think its a lot more than 5%. Clearly Long found something in Murphy's swing that allowed him to turn his ability to make contact into an ability to make contact and hit for considerably more power.

    All you need to look at is his time with the Yankees and what he was able to do with Curtis Granderson.
    I'm sure Long sees plenty of things in plenty of hitters swings... but how many times does it turn a hitter into what Murphy became? Murphy did it by working on his craft. At most I'd give Long 10% of the credit. Anything more is disrespectful to Murphy. I mean, if it was that easy for Long to turn hitters into .900 OPS hitters, then why isn't our lineup filled with .900 OPS hitters? Truth is Long saw something, gave a nice little suggestion for Murphy to try out, and Murphy did all the heavy lifting to turn it into all his success.

    And btw, Granderson was good before becoming a Yankee. He really only had one great year as a Yankee, but that joke of a ball park elevated his HR numbers. It's not like Long turned him into a beast and deserves a huge amount of credit.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 09-13-2017 at 09:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    I'm sure Long sees plenty of things in plenty of hitters swings... but how many times does it turn a hitter into what Murphy became? Murphy did it by working on his craft. At most I'd give Long 10% of the credit. Anything more is disrespectful to Murphy. I mean, if it was that easy for Long to turn hitters into .900 OPS hitters, then why isn't our lineup filled with .900 OPS hitters? Truth is Long saw something, gave a nice little suggestion for Murphy to try out, and Murphy did all the heavy lifting to turn it into all his success.

    And btw, Granderson was good before becoming a Yankee. He really only had one great year as a Yankee, but that joke of a ball park elevated his HR numbers. It's not like Long turned him into a beast and deserves a huge amount of credit.
    Well the benefit he had with Murphy is that he makes a ton of contact. Most hitters Long has probably coached don't strike out less than 10% of the time. The major problem with Murphy was his inability to turn that constant contact into a consistent hard hit %. Swinging and making contact with everything isn't necessarily a compliment either. It was in Murphy's case once he made those adjustments because he was able to cover all parts of the plate and square up the ball with more regularity than he did through most of his tenure with the Mets.

    Murphy certainly deserves a lot of credit. He probably was in the batting cage and taking extra time in BP making the adjustments but if Long doesn't see that in his swing, he presumably never becomes the player he's become. Players don't get significantly better in their 30s. It's not how it works.

    Yeah Granderson was good before coming to the Yankees and YS certainly helped him but Granderson was putting up similar numbers on the road during his time with the Yankees as well.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...&year=2011&t=b

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