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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    He was great the entire second half of 2015, not just the playoffs. But no, it's hard to say anyone say this coming.

    But he was never a net negative. Ever.
    In his 7 years here, he had a WAR of 13.5. That would make him an average ball player. Tip your cap to him and the Nationals for making him a better hitter.
    Misleading if not inaccurate to say the Nats made him better. They did not.

    He merely picked up where he left off following the second half of 2015 including the post season.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Misleading if not inaccurate to say the Nats made him better. They did not.

    He merely picked up where he left off following the second half of 2015 including the post season.

    9.4 WAR since becoming a Nat.

    13.5 WAR in 7 years with the Mets.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Misleading if not inaccurate to say the Nats made him better. They did not.

    He merely picked up where he left off following the second half of 2015 including the post season.

    9.4 WAR since becoming a Nat.

    13.5 WAR in 7 years with the Mets.
    Since we clearly established that Murph was one player in the second half of 2015 and another in the rest of his Met career, I'm sure you can see why comparing cumulative WAR here isn't relevant.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Since we clearly established that Murph was one player in the second half of 2015 and another in the rest of his Met career, I'm sure you can see why comparing cumulative WAR here isn't relevant.
    Quoted for truth.


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  5. #140
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    If we pretend the 2nd half of 2015 and the postseason never happened, then yes, kudos to the Nats for making Murphy a better hitter.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    If we pretend the 2nd half of 2015 and the postseason never happened, then yes, kudos to the Nats for making Murphy a better hitter.
    Agreed.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    If we pretend the 2nd half of 2015 and the postseason never happened, then yes, kudos to the Nats for making Murphy a better hitter.
    Funny how people continue to erase that from their minds as if it never happened.

    Kudos to the bats for signing him at such a low price.


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  8. #143
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    Kevin Long is a good hitting coach if you give him semi talented players. Am sure he helped Duda, Cespedes, Walker, Cabrera, etc, not just Murphy.

    Its just a shame Walker was injured throughout a significant part of his tenure here and the Mets didn't compete this season because the difference between Walker and Murphy would have been minimal had they played the full extents of 2016 and 2017. It was last year for example.

  9. #144
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    Walker's RH batting prowess in 2016 looks like it was a fluke now though, so that was disappointing.

    I still wouldn't be against him coming back and playing 3rd. He's a better player than Cabrera.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Kevin Long is a good hitting coach if you give him semi talented players. Am sure he helped Duda, Cespedes, Walker, Cabrera, etc, not just Murphy.

    Its just a shame Walker was injured throughout a significant part of his tenure here and the Mets didn't compete this season because the difference between Walker and Murphy would have been minimal had they played the full extents of 2016 and 2017. It was last year for example.
    Oh come on. Minimal?

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    Oh come on. Minimal?
    Walker was almost a 4 WAR player in 2016 in 113 games played. Murphy was a 5.5 WAR player in 2016 in 142 games played. Had they play an equitable amount of games, you're presumably talking about a 1 win difference.

    The real difference is this year but Walker wasn't healthy and not as effective. That said, neither has Murphy been as effective as he was in 2016.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-12-2017 at 11:54 PM.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Walker was almost a 4 WAR player in 2016 in 113 games played. Murphy was a 5.5 WAR player in 2016 in 142 games played. Had they play an equitable amount of games, you're presumably talking about a 1 win difference.

    The real difference is this year but Walker wasn't healthy and not as effective. That said, neither has Murphy been as effective as he was in 2016.
    WAR is not the end-all be-all of statistics. Again, with this "I'll just pick one that supports my argument" nonsense. Here, I can do that too:

    Walker's OPS(+) in 2016: .823 (120)
    Murphy's OPS(+)in 2016: .985 (155)

    That's not "minimal." Want another one?

    Walker's wRC+ 2016: 122
    Murphy's wRC+ 2016: 156

    Again, not minimal.

    So knock it off.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    WAR is not the end-all be-all of statistics. Again, with this "I'll just pick one that supports my argument" nonsense. Here, I can do that too:

    Walker's OPS(+) in 2016: .823 (120)
    Murphy's OPS(+)in 2016: .985 (155)

    That's not "minimal." Want another one?

    Walker's wRC+ 2016: 122
    Murphy's wRC+ 2016: 156

    Again, not minimal.

    So knock it off.
    I didn't know baseball was just about offense.

    You're doing the same thing by ignoring how wide a gap there is between the two defensively. I'm not arguing who was the better offensive player but Murphy was a -9 DRS defensively at 2nd base last year. Walker was a 0 DRS. That's pretty significant and I don't really care if you buy defensive numbers or not. Show me your model for measuring defensive performance. I'll stick with Fangraphs.

    Walker was much a much better defensive player in 2016.

    Does Murphy DH? No and last time I checked defense matters. The disparity in defensive performance closes the gap in terms of overall value.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-13-2017 at 05:09 AM.

  14. #149
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    It's always silly to come up with an argument by using "if".

    What "if" Walker was healthy and sucked?
    That's the problem with that argument.


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  15. #150
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    Imagine if we kept Murphy, put him on first, then traded for Walker and he never got hurt and kept playing like he did in 2016?

    And imagine we resigned Justin Turner and made him the everyday third baseman when Wright got hurt?

    Wow.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

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