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  1. #1
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    Should this guy be in the HOF? List 1 guy you would add that isn't an obvious choice

    I dont know when the HOF (as it pertains to the NBA) ceased to favor the selfless winners over stat machines but I feel like this individual would have made the HOF had he come around in the 50's-80's OR he would have been the type to hog the ball more in todays simplistic game had he come up today. As it was, his game was peeking so late in his career (made his first and only A-S game in his mid-30's) partly because the game had gone his way. Im not going to list his accolades, because they are pretty meek, even for HOF standards but the guy was a winner in the truest sense of the word, starting and ending his career with a chip. Teams that added him overachieved and declined without him, even in cases where his replacement was superior statistically (the hall mark of an intangibles all-star).

    You always hear about guys making others better but to be honest, thats really hard to do if you're dominating the ball/shots the way many superstars do and there are various degrees to how much you get out of your teammates. Well this guy had a history of getting the most out of even the most dominant of players. He helped one win an MVP, got career years from others, he turned losers like the Nets/Clippers into halfway decent teams, he hit so many big shots that he hurt himself celebrating the way he always has. His game aged like fine wine, even if his legs and health didn't let him stay on the court as long.



    You've probably figured out who Im talking about by now but if its not clear then Im glad I wasn't too obvious. Ill post his stats/accomplishments after but in the meantime feel free to tell me why this guy isn't in the HOF, if he should be or go ahead and post your 1 player you feel is so underrated people dont even think of him as a HOF'er and Im not talking about Dennis Johnson types, those are easy.

  2. #2
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    Dec 2009
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    Sam Cassell.

    I remembering him and Horry winning the ship as rooks on the rox. I was thinking Horry for a second but figured he was never on the Clips or Nets.

    Dude is like Billups and Draymond, guys who do the small things and the highly intelligent thing that helps you win games.

    Not too sure if I am supposed to spoil the thread by answering.

    Odom came to my mind too, but he didn't win much early on.

    Nice puzzle, we need more posts and threads like this to keep things interesting vs. the lebron/kd/kyrie threads ans posts.

  3. #3
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    Him, Billups, Draymond, Rodman (already in), Odom, should all be seriously considered. Glue guys are invaluable as you mentioned. Battier and Bowen to smaller extents. IMO Cassell is in my personal hall of fame, but if you get him in the real one there is a slippery slope with guys like Michael Finley, Horry, Horace Grant types and it becomes more vague the criteria. So it's a very good question, but ultimately as weak as the criteria already is I don't think he should just because of the can of worms it opens. If you would ask me who I want on my team Mitch Richmond (HoF) or Sam Cassell? I would take the latter FWIW.

    Also for me, Marc Gasol is the 1 guy I consider a HOF player, don't know if he is a good answer as a not obvious choice.
    Last edited by Heediot; 08-15-2017 at 04:41 PM.

  4. #4
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    Ben Wallace: Offensively useless, he has four DPOY awards, five all-NBA defensive first team selections (and another second), four all-NBA selections, four all-star selections and a championship, all while being undrafted.
    Mark Aguirre: He averaged more than 20 points per game for six straight seasons before sacrificing usage to win two championships with Detroit.
    Jack Sikma: He helped bring Seattle its only championship and was a seven-time all-star and one-time all-defensive player. Sikma never made an all-NBA team, but he played at the same time as Kareem and Moses. He even had late-career three-point range and shot free throws as well as a guard.

  5. #5
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    Damn. Is that Sonics team the only one that had no hof for as long as they did?

    Sikma was ahead of his time

  6. #6
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    Looking up Horry, he wasn't a rookie with Cassell. Ooops bad memory there, Horry was drafted a year before.

    I never saw Sikma play, so I can't comment.

    As for Wallace he has a real shot at the HOF. If Mutombo is in, Wallace has a decent chance, although Mutombo showed a bit more on offense. Rodman made it weak offense so that helps his case also.

  7. #7
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    Nvmd, silly comment.

  8. #8
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    I think Cassell is a HOFer.

    The first year he was with the Clips, I had him ranked in my top five for MVP. Valuable? Yes. He wasn't posting high averages, but I remember reading and article where during practice they'd have a break, and Cassell would just keep working, and then the other guys didn't want to look like bums, so they a couple joined in, and then nobody wanted to look like bums so they all joined in, and pretty soon a break turned into no break because they were following his lead.

    He wasn't the best player on the team, but he was the most valuable, because he was a champion who knew how to win, and came into a team that had a horrid history and losing culture (or at least losing tradition), and he led by example, which helped each player become accountable for themselves. The result? The team's first playoff series win in LA and a 7-game series against a very good Suns team.

    With the Bucks? Since 1986, they've been to the conference finals once: that was with Cassell. He helped the Bucks get five straight winning seasons and 4 playoff appearances. Have they seen that kind of success since? It's been a while. Over ten years since he left. And in the ten years before they didn't see that kind of success either.

    And even in a short tenure with the Nets, he helped them turn around.


    This wasn't all him, but it's no coincidence that Brand played his best ball with Cassell pushing him. Same could be said of Kaman.


    He's a leader. He may not have ever been the best guy on the court, but few worked harder, and he held himself to a high standard and that allowed him to call out other guys and lead by example.

    Comes in as a rookie, win a title, soaks up all that mentorship from Dream and Rudy T and Drex... brings it to other guys... guys who are better than him, and get them to reach their potential.


    HOF is for people were are exceptional at what they do. That's a broad definition. Horry was an exceptional role player who hit big shots. Nobody did that better. He was luck as hell, but he did that. He deserves it. Cassell was an exceptional leader. When people talk about getting 'championship experience' on their team... it's usually a buzz word... but that fit with Cassell. He did something most other guys could do.
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  9. #9
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    I don't think cassell is close to being a hall of famer. just some pg's who are in his range and haven't made it

    Kevin Johnson
    Terry Porter
    Maurice Cheeks
    Rod Strickland
    Tim Hardaway
    Derek Harper
    Mookie Blaylock
    Mark Price

  10. #10
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    Mark Jackson
    Rep Power: 0




    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  11. #11
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    Ben Wallace should get in
    4x allstar
    4x DPOY
    3x all NBA 2nd team
    2x all NBA 3rd team
    5x all defensive 1st team
    1x all defensive 2nd team
    Hard to argue with that kind of accomplishments

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Damn. Is that Sonics team the only one that had no hof for as long as they did?

    Sikma was ahead of his time
    Sikma is overlooked a lot because he won just before the NBA exploded and then was relegated to second tier player while Magic, Bird, Dr. J and then MJ were the super stars.

    I remember buying basketball cards from a dude back in the day (Fleer or Skybox of Hoops or something) and this one dude was selling a Jack Sikma rookie card... he was an old dude and was like: "This guy is so underrated." I looked at the card and was like: This guy looks like somebody's alcoholic uncle (I mean, not as much as Jeff Ruland, who himself was a helluva player at one point), there's no way he's a good NBA player. But when you look back at his career... especially given how he added that three-point shot in his mid 30's, it's really impressive.
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  13. #13
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    Andrei Kirilenko

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

    Your baby can't do this

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I dont know when the HOF (as it pertains to the NBA) ceased to favor the selfless winners over stat machines.
    I think it was a combination of the Magic/Bird era followed by the MJ days.

    Before that, it was teams that won. Look at those Celtics teams in the 60's. It was a team of guys overcoming the most dominant player in the history of the game. The 70's rolled around, and you didn't generally have huge individual stats guys winning: Cowens/Celtics, Walton/Blazers, the Bullets and Sonics. Even when Wilt won with the Lakers, he had taken a back-seat with scoring. And when the Bucks won, it was a small market team with two big names that shared the all (Kareem and O). The Knicks had multiple All-Stars sharing the spot light. The only time an individual player really won in the 70's was the Warriors with Barry.


    In the 80's, the NBA became about individuals. Magic. Bird. Dr. J. I mean... Kareem was a household name first. Then MJ turned things around completely. People weren't 'basketball' fans, they were 'Michael Jordan' fans. He help to that the popularity to the next level, but he ruined something about the game in the process.

    Then people valued individual play over team play: Kobe, T-Mac, ect... it's why the Spurs get low ratings.

    So I think that once the HOF was done inducting those guys from the 70's and 60's, it started to focus on the individual greats instead of guys who contributed to team success.

    Fans don't talk about Rip and Prince and Billups like they do about T-Mac and Harden or Iverson.

    So... the HOF has shifted its values as well.
    Why did the chicken cross the basketball court?
    Because he heard the refs were blowing fowls.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I dont know when the HOF (as it pertains to the NBA) ceased to favor the selfless winners over stat machines but I feel like this individual would have made the HOF had he come around in the 50's-80's OR he would have been the type to hog the ball more in todays simplistic game had he come up today. As it was, his game was peeking so late in his career (made his first and only A-S game in his mid-30's) partly because the game had gone his way. Im not going to list his accolades, because they are pretty meek, even for HOF standards but the guy was a winner in the truest sense of the word, starting and ending his career with a chip. Teams that added him overachieved and declined without him, even in cases where his replacement was superior statistically (the hall mark of an intangibles all-star).

    You always hear about guys making others better but to be honest, thats really hard to do if you're dominating the ball/shots the way many superstars do and there are various degrees to how much you get out of your teammates. Well this guy had a history of getting the most out of even the most dominant of players. He helped one win an MVP, got career years from others, he turned losers like the Nets/Clippers into halfway decent teams, he hit so many big shots that he hurt himself celebrating the way he always has. His game aged like fine wine, even if his legs and health didn't let him stay on the court as long.



    You've probably figured out who Im talking about by now but if its not clear then Im glad I wasn't too obvious. Ill post his stats/accomplishments after but in the meantime feel free to tell me why this guy isn't in the HOF, if he should be or go ahead and post your 1 player you feel is so underrated people dont even think of him as a HOF'er and Im not talking about Dennis Johnson types, those are easy.
    Rik Smits

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