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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoicSentry View Post
    Who wants Daniel Murphy when you can have a low ceiling minor league relief pitcher to be named later AND "payroll flexibility"?
    Who wants Neil Walker when he was the better player if you compared their respective careers before 2016? It wasn't like Walker was a bust, he just got injured and then they dumped him for salary relief in a lost season.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Who wants Neil Walker when he was the better player if you compared their respective careers before 2016? It wasn't like Walker was a bust, he just got injured and then they dumped him for salary relief in a lost season.
    What they did before 2016 doesn't matter anymore.


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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    What they did before 2016 doesn't matter anymore.


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    It did when the Mets traded for Walker and to Stoic's point, its not like the Mets chose between Daniel Murphy and what they eventually got from the Brewers when moving Neil. They wanted Walker because he was a switch hitting 2nd baseman who was a better defender and a good bat.
    Last edited by metswon69; 08-13-2017 at 12:53 PM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    It did when the Mets traded for Walker and to Stoic's point, its not like the Mets chose between Daniel Murphy and what they eventually got from the Brewers when moving Neil. They wanted Walker because he was a switch hitting 2nd baseman who was a better defender and a good bat.
    Don't forget the one detail that appealed most to the front office and its boss: Walker meant only a one year commitment, Murphy meant at least three.

    I'm not sure Fred specifically demanded penny pinching that targeted Murphy, but the genius had determined Murphy was a "net negative". Alderson had been trying to get rid of his rising arbitral salary for a few years and wasn't going to be bothered with any details going forward, like Murphy's emergence as an elite talent.

    Maverick must have thought he was very clever swapping out Niese's salary for Walker. It was like getting a year of Walker for free, while also dodging any long term commitment at 2B. Plus minimum wage Dilson was waiting in the wings.

    Let's not forget these obsessive austerity measures came when the Mets were even more flush with funds than usual, having just made the World Series, with season plans selling like hotcakes.

    All in all it was a tragic combination of a miserly sociopath of an owner, and his strutting, arrogant, highly educated yet fundamentally obtuse henchman. The only tangible goods the Mets will be left with are Anthony Kay and a PTBNL.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post

    Maverick must have thought he was very clever swapping out Niese's salary for Walker. It was like getting a year of Walker for free, while also dodging any long term commitment at 2B. Plus minimum wage Dilson was waiting in the wings.
    It's part of the Mets' stated strategic plan - too rotate youth into the lineup and stay away from LT commitments to players at or past their prime.

    A one-year commitment to either Walker or Murphy allowed the Mets to buy time to do that. Herrera didn't work out, but Herrera wasn't the only option since middle IF was an area of depth in the organization.

    For the 1000th time not a single GM expected Murphy to continue his late-season production. Players routinely have hot streaks and the league adjusts. Somehow you knew better about Murphy, but you didn't know any better about Tejada or Nieuwenhuis so lets chalk it up to what it is.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    It did when the Mets traded for Walker and to Stoic's point, its not like the Mets chose between Daniel Murphy and what they eventually got from the Brewers when moving Neil. They wanted Walker because he was a switch hitting 2nd baseman who was a better defender and a good bat.
    And they were wrong period.


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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    And they were wrong period.


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    No they were not. Walker provided good value to the Mets.
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    It's part of the Mets' stated strategic plan - too rotate youth into the lineup and stay away from LT commitments to players at or past their prime.

    A one-year commitment to either Walker or Murphy allowed the Mets to buy time to do that. Herrera didn't work out, but Herrera wasn't the only option since middle IF was an area of depth in the organization.

    For the 1000th time not a single GM expected Murphy to continue his late-season production. Players routinely have hot streaks and the league adjusts. Somehow you knew better about Murphy, but you didn't know any better about Tejada or Nieuwenhuis so lets chalk it up to what it is.
    I understand you feel compelled to defend the organization for some reason, but at least play it straight when you attribute opinions to me.

    Find me the post where I lament letting Tejada go. I never did. I did observe he's great at squaring up the ball and it's a shame this skill was never developed. Are you going to argue otherwise?

    The most I ever predicted for a full season of Kirk was 20 HR and a .250 BA with above average fielding. He hit 13 HR in 335 AB last year with above average fielding. He also hit .209 but had a .709 OPS. Kirk has every tool but the hit tool. Perhaps he needs eyeglasses.

    If you find that reason to criticize my armchair evaluations, then what do you have to say about the Maverick, with a whole staff of scouts and researchers, who spent ten times as much on De Aza last season to get lower production?
    Last edited by Coupon; 08-13-2017 at 02:36 PM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    And they were wrong period.


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    This.

    In my personal opinion, the whole handling of the Murphy/Walker/Herrera/Bruce/Lucroy trade-signing "thread" (remember, we didn't trade for Lucroy because Herrera was the "future 2B", then moved him one year later for Bruce) is Sandy's biggest screwup.

    I would rather have had Murphy (at the rate he is getting from Washington) and Lucroy (who even with the bad year he is having now would have been better in the Catcher's spot than what we have received) for the last two years than Neil Walker and a year's worth of Bruce, a single A righthander with 30 innings of experience, and a PTBNL.
    Last edited by bbsmets; 08-13-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJNetsIsles View Post
    No they were not. Walker provided good value to the Mets.
    Not the value Murphy has provided since.

    And again is not like we did not see Murphy do something great before he was let go. The hitting coach advocated to the FO that they keep him because he thought he thought what he did on that playoff run was no fluke.

    In the end they were wrong period. Am sure of you ask Sandy and he spoke honestly he would take that back.


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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    And they were wrong period.


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    That wasn't what I was arguing. I was arguing that the Mets didn't choose between Daniel Murphy and a PTBNL/ payroll flexibility.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Not with this GM, ownership and not until Wright retires.
    I heard the same bs with Cespedes, and they handed out the largest contract this past off season.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    You're hoping for a unicorn sighting my friend
    I might be, but Alderson was once quoted that FA contracts for 26-27 year olds have less risk than the 31-33 year olds.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    You're hoping for a unicorn sighting my friend
    I might be, but Alderson was once quoted that FA contracts for 26-27 year olds have less risk than the 31-33 year olds.
    Right you are, sir
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I heard the same bs with Cespedes, and they handed out the largest contract this past off season.
    What about Alderson's tenure or the Met's ownership in general suggests to you the Mets are going to give Machado 8-10 years? And please don't tell me David Wright because they had to do that deal as he was the face of the franchise.

    They got lucky no one wanted to go 5-6 years on Cespedes because the Mets wouldn't have.
    Last edited by metswon69; 08-13-2017 at 04:04 PM.

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