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  1. #31
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    I think most coaches can develop and teach footwork and mechanics. It's up to the player to buy on and put in the work.

    I'm not dismissing developmental importance by coaches. Certainly there is some merit there but I do think it may be a bit overrated compared to the talent of the QB and surrounding pieces around them.

  2. #32
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    I'm not suggesting it's everything either, but I don't agree with idea that development is overrated or a myth.

    Ultimately the talent matters, but being put in the right situation with the right coach & players can make a difference. We've kinda seen that firsthand with these last two coaches IMO.

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    I'm not suggesting it's everything either, but I don't agree with idea that development is overrated or a myth.

    Ultimately the talent matters, but being put in the right situation with the right coach & players can make a difference. We've kinda seen that firsthand with these last two coaches IMO.

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    Yeah, I think we're pretty much on the same page here. Trestman was so over his head that of course it showed when he took over as HC. Fox is a terrible game manager but let's face it, the QBs he's had to work with thus far have been bad and there's not many play makers on either side of the ball. Simply put, the talent level on this team is still lacking. A stud QB can make up for a lot of that though.

    I think you hit it on the head that coaches who put players in the right situation is really what it boils down to and the most important thing when it comes to development, IMO. Overall though, I think the talent has to be there and that's most important. Then having a coach who knows how to game plan and put the players in the right situation that also has the respect and confidence of the players is 2nd...but still very important.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Yeah, I think we're pretty much on the same page here. Trestman was so over his head that of course it showed when he took over as HC. Fox is a terrible game manager but let's face it, the QBs he's had to work with thus far have been bad and there's not many play makers on either side of the ball. Simply put, the talent level on this team is still lacking. A stud QB can make up for a lot of that though.

    I think you hit it on the head that coaches who put players in the right situation is really what it boils down to and the most important thing when it comes to development, IMO. Overall though, I think the talent has to be there and that's most important. Then having a coach who knows how to game plan and put the players in the right situation that also has the respect and confidence of the players is 2nd...but still very important.
    This is my reasoning for wanting Josh McDaniels as HC. His game planning for opponents is masterful. Their offense is completely diverse between opponents.

    Side note, I like that he comes with the Denver experience under his belt. He understands the transition. I think he does much much better in his second HC run.


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  5. #35
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    I think 3 things go into player development:

    1) Information. This is 100% on the coach. This is the information the coach has to teach/give a player. I believe at the NFL level, information is mostly standard and therefore relatively similar among coaches.

    2) Communication. This is part coach and part player. A coach has to effectively convey the knowledge and skills to a player. A player has to understand, comprehend, and clarify that information. This can be strong or weak or totally breakdown on either end.

    3) Application. This is 100% on a player. Once coaches communicate information or skills, it is up to a player to apply it appropriately. This ability varies widely from player to player for a number of reasons. I view this as more volatile than #1.

    With those 3 aspects in mind, I would argue that coaches play an important role in development, but their controllable factors are more limited (basically communication as information is pretty standard) than a players role (communication & application).

    I agree 100% with the idea that scheme/game plan is a large factor in a coaches ability to aid his player(s), but I view that as a separate issue than player development. I think this is a coaches largest contribution to a players success.


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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach100 View Post
    Systems/coaches developing players is a bit of a myth. What I mean is if GB is so good at developing QBs, where are all their other successful QBs that developed in their system and then moved on? IMO, developing Favre and Rodgers are unrelated as that was nearly 15 yrs apart and under totally different staffs. Same can be said with Indy getting Luck and Manning. I do believe certain coaches are better at aiding development than others, but ultimately this is a player ability thing.

    As for the conversation about sitting QBs or playing them right away. There is zero way to quantify which is better as you can only do one with a QB. Both choices have some success stories and many, many more failures. I believe some players need a certain approach to be successful and some are fine/bad no matter the approach.


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    They have had a ton of guys succede in that system man. Same with the patriots. They then get traded and struggle elsewhere.

    Anyone remember when. Matt flynn was awsome. Got 2 year 26 mim ( actually really similar to what glennon got factoring inflation of cap. ) and how many cassells do we have to go through. Jimmy G and Jacoby Birsett. Bret Hundley.... All these guys look amazing in their system but outside who knows.

    Its also funny because jay had a great year with Gase because of the system.

    Do i think thst playing vs sitting is better. Well i thibk it depends slot on the player and how playing is. If you throw a kid with a weak ability to handle the pressure. And you get hin hit and picked a ton. It could really stunt him. If he plays and he isnt hit. It is hard to argue the reps are not worth it. But this team has been banged up along thst front all season. Now that we are healthy hopefully we can protect our star.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach100 View Post
    I think 3 things go into player development:

    1) Information. This is 100% on the coach. This is the information the coach has to teach/give a player. I believe at the NFL level, information is mostly standard and therefore relatively similar among coaches.

    2) Communication. This is part coach and part player. A coach has to effectively convey the knowledge and skills to a player. A player has to understand, comprehend, and clarify that information. This can be strong or weak or totally breakdown on either end.

    3) Application. This is 100% on a player. Once coaches communicate information or skills, it is up to a player to apply it appropriately. This ability varies widely from player to player for a number of reasons. I view this as more volatile than #1.

    With those 3 aspects in mind, I would argue that coaches play an important role in development, but their controllable factors are more limited (basically communication as information is pretty standard) than a players role (communication & application).

    I agree 100% with the idea that scheme/game plan is a large factor in a coaches ability to aid his player(s), but I view that as a separate issue than player development. I think this is a coaches largest contribution to a players success.


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    Agreed.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    They have had a ton of guys succede in that system man. Same with the patriots. They then get traded and struggle elsewhere.

    Anyone remember when. Matt flynn was awsome. Got 2 year 26 mim ( actually really similar to what glennon got factoring inflation of cap. ) and how many cassells do we have to go through. Jimmy G and Jacoby Birsett. Bret Hundley.... All these guys look amazing in their system but outside who knows.

    Its also funny because jay had a great year with Gase because of the system.

    Do i think thst playing vs sitting is better. Well i thibk it depends slot on the player and how playing is. If you throw a kid with a weak ability to handle the pressure. And you get hin hit and picked a ton. It could really stunt him. If he plays and he isnt hit. It is hard to argue the reps are not worth it. But this team has been banged up along thst front all season. Now that we are healthy hopefully we can protect our star.
    Flynn didn't succeed; he had 2 good games. Cassel is the only guy who had a good year (or extended stretch) that left and flopped. All the others had a few solid games and teams that were QB needy took a chance. Big difference between extended success and a few good games.

    I would argue that FOs believing that certain organizations can "create" good QBs is part of the reason teams took a chance on relatively unproven guys and have almost always been burned doing so. Wouldn't all the guys "failing" show that their success was all about system and not true development?


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  9. #39
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    Don't know what happened to my guy but he's been hilaribad for 3 straight games. My guess is his shoulder injury has done him in

    At least he got a td lolol


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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Don't know what happened to my guy but he's been hilaribad for 3 straight games. My guess is his shoulder injury has done him in

    At least he got a td lolol


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    Probably having no training camp, not being in football shape, on a bad team, etc.

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  11. #41
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    Lions coming back from a 27-10 deficit to make it a game again vs Panthers

    Panthers just got a huge first down though

  12. #42
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    Lions lose

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Probably having no training camp, not being in football shape, on a bad team, etc.

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    Certainly wouldn't help

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  14. #44
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    Anyone miss Jay right now.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    Anyone miss Jay right now.
    Kristin

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