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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Because in the heat of the moment, sexual orientation is one of the furthest things from your mind, your words are just directed at the one person.
    I think it shows instinct. Replace the N word with it and try to tell me that person who said doesn't have some serious racism issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I guess I don't understand what your question is then.
    Tell me why do you think gay men are not as open about their sexuality in athletics as they are in dance, music, art, and fashion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  3. #48
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    Would anyone have cared if he called the fan an idiot?
    That's insulting to people who aren't smart.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    Would anyone have cared if he called the fan an idiot?
    That's insulting to people who aren't smart.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    I think you are taking it a bit far, but yes, I have serious issues with those who degrade people with special needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    You like hockey
    you crossed a line in the sand!
    Baseball Maverick: How Sandy Alderson Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets
    I am that Daddy Cool

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefeckcampaign View Post
    I think you are taking it a bit far, but yes, I have serious issues with those who degrade people with special needs.
    So calling someone an idiot is also derogatory and offensive?

    Wow

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    So calling someone an idiot is also derogatory and offensive?

    Wow

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    No but calling someone the r-word is and we see that **** all the time. I worked with the mentally handicapped population for 5 years and they are very offended by its use.

    This is kind of a go nowhere argument though. There are groups of 15-30 year old males who believe the word has no derogatory context because when its thrown around its not meant that way. At least not in the sense that its meant to be insulting towards homosexuals. I think South Park did an episode of this as well, ironically.

    That said, its unfair to forget the history of the word and how it was used. How much pain and intolerance is associated with that word and how many people its adversely affected.

    Players shouldn't be using it and I don't think its any different than someone using the n-word to describe black people or the s-word to describe Latinos.
    Last edited by metswon69; 08-08-2017 at 12:15 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    No but calling someone the r-word is and we see that **** all the time. I worked with the mentally handicapped population for 5 years and they are very offended by its use.

    This is kind of a go nowhere argument though. There are groups of 15-30 year old males who believe the word has no derogatory context because when its thrown around its not meant that way. At least not in the sense that its meant to be insulting towards homosexuals. I think South Park did an episode of this as well, ironically.

    That said, its unfair to forget the history of the word and how it was used. How much pain and intolerance is associated with that word and how many people its adversely affected.

    Players shouldn't be using it and I don't think its any different than someone using the n-word to describe black people or the s-word to describe Latinos.
    I think even more-so-then-that, it's the fact that Joyce wasn't just representing himself in that situation, but a franchise and a sport. Matt Joyce was acting a representative of the Oakland Athletics and by extension, the entire MLB. There are times like this in which you must hold yourself in a higher standard of professionalism. I realize it's difficult to sometimes deal with the amount of **** that you take from casual fans (especially the drunk ones), but it's also something you know you deal with as an MLB player (you also get paid entirely more than the average person, so I feel like it easily tilts in the direction of the player).

    It'd have been one thing if Matt Joyce said the word as a regular old guy, not at the baseball field, among friends (I still think the word needs eliminated from adult vocabulary, we can all grow up and find another word to use that doesn't alienate an entire subsection of people), but at that point he's not doing it representing any one, or anything. As a member of an organization, you just can't do it. I find it strange there are people who are up in arms about a company suspending an employee because he cussed out/used profane language at a paying customer. I brought it up before (and you had a very excellent response to said post), but if we replaced "Matt Joyce Major League Baseball Player" for "Joe Schmo, customer service rep at Target" but left the rest of the story the same (customer was incredibly rude, Joe Schmo cussed him out and called him bad names)...would anyone be surprised to hear that Joe was fired? Would anyone be upset? Probably not.
    1st Place...the only place that matters


  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    His suspension falls in line with what Pillar got last year for using the same slur. I don't know what the proper punishment is because players say a lot of dumb **** in the heat of the moment. Obviously MLB has a precedent here in terms of punishment and they're going to stick to that precedent.
    This.



    There is nothing wrong with the MLB having their standard for fan interactions that players have to live up to.

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Lol.. This sport is ****ing hilarious... Call someone a gay slur 2 games... throw 100 at a guys head-told not to do it again.


    Well the latter needs to be addressed any way.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Stadiums also issue lifetime bans to fans who run on the field so the criteria is skewed a tad bit. Perhaps, they should be more concerned with fans yelling obscenities and slurs at players and treat that more harshly than they do some drunken idiot running on the field. I get the running on the field thing is a safety concern but MLB doesn't necessarily have their priorities in order in that regard.

    Should MLB have a stronger punishment for players using racist and homophobic remarks? Sure but the level of punishment is entirely subjective. What's appropriate? 5 games? 10 games? 50 games?
    I don't even see how you can enforce a lifetime ban to a fan. It's not like they are checking I.D.'s. just have a buddy buy your ticket online and go in with them.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    See, you appear to be one of those that's missing the point.

    If Joyce had seen two guys holding hands in the bleachers and, unprovoked, had called them the slur, I'd hope that the MLB would have had a more severe punishment.

    As I said in the OP, there are lots of names that you can call people that don't insult millions of other people.
    Or we could just not name call.


    I understand words can hurt. But I kind of funny that some words are deemed more acceptable.

    If I called you the dirtier version of butthole, while rude, nobody would be offended or shocked.
    But if I called a woman an aunt with a 'c' I would be burned at the stake, even though both body parts are about 1.5 inches from one another lol.

    People really get up in arms about profanity. I'm a fan of no sensorship personally, and that name calling is the sign of the person's intellect in the first place.

    That said, the MLB needs to have rules with how players interact with fans for both the fan and player safety. That, and the players are, like you said, the employee, and the fans are the customer.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Actually, no you're not. Especially as an employee. I mean, I guess physically, you can go ahead and say whatever you want because only you control your mouth, but if you think that you're entitled to be consequence free afterwards, then you're sadly mistaken. And if Matt Joyce would rather say a stupid, degrading word than make, oh, millions of dollars? Then sure, he should tell the Athletics to fire him. But chances are, he'd rather just not say the word and collect his salary.

    The Athletics and the MLB have every right to not alienate a group of people (whether you like them or not) who may be fans. And as the employers of Matt Joyce can suspend him as they see fit. Matt Joyce is very lucky he has the kind of job he does, because I assure you, if I called a client/customer that in my line of work, I would not have a job...and I believe that almost any one else, in any profession, would see the same response from their employer as well. Matt Joyce doesn't get paid for 2 days and gets a little vacation. He's incredibly lucky.
    Well this gets into the argument for freedom of speech.

    You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how stupid or dangerous. And that should be consequence free from detainment and punishment.

    That said, as an employer, you have the right to contract employees to certain regards of character when dealing with fans/customers.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    No but calling someone the r-word is and we see that **** all the time. I worked with the mentally handicapped population for 5 years and they are very offended by its use.

    This is kind of a go nowhere argument though. There are groups of 15-30 year old males who believe the word has no derogatory context because when its thrown around its not meant that way. At least not in the sense that its meant to be insulting towards homosexuals. I think South Park did an episode of this as well, ironically.

    That said, its unfair to forget the history of the word and how it was used. How much pain and intolerance is associated with that word and how many people its adversely affected.

    Players shouldn't be using it and I don't think its any different than someone using the n-word to describe black people or the s-word to describe Latinos.
    South Park had an incredible episode on how the word that Joyce used has evolved with it's meaning.

    It was incredible.


    Just 20 seconds (note, the word is used in the clip)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yskrelBCD0g

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I don't even see how you can enforce a lifetime ban to a fan. It's not like they are checking I.D.'s. just have a buddy buy your ticket online and go in with them.
    Yup. I got escorted out of Yankee Stadium once when I was 22 for being too drunk before the game had started. Sobered up a little outside for an hour, went to a different ticket line and bought my friend and I new tickets. We walked right back in. Very easy.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  15. #60
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    Well that's a little bit different than a "life time" ban. But yeah, I don't see how they could enforce it either.

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