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  1. #1
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    LAD/SFG forum drama

    PSD members,

    Over the past five weeks, we've had a lot of drama between the Dodgers forum and the SF Giants forum and some of their members, and this can be traced further back with some other concerns. This has spilled into some of the threads in the MLB main forum, including threads that don't have anything to do with either team.

    Back in the middle of July, a sticky was posted in each team forum that detailed a zero tolerance policy towards the posts that were spilling out into the other forums. This sticky can be viewed in each forum, and states that if the opposing fan is not in the others' forum posting in a respectful manner, they will get banned from the opposing forum and receive an infraction. If the issues happened in the MLB main, they would face a six month ban. In addition, we talked to the Dodgers moderator and received commitment from them to stay above the fray.

    Over the weekend and today, things reached the boiling point for us behind the scenes, having to see all of the reported posts and trying to put out fires. Rush, Timmmahh and I came to the difficult decision to move ciaban to the Retired Mods user group. Two users have already received forum bans from the other team forum, as well as the ban from the MLB forum. However, we decided to be a bit lenient this time around due to it being the first time we've passed this punishment and drop the ban to a month.

    We are still evaluating what has happened, and there may be other forum bans and/or infractions left to hand out. If there are Giants and Dodgers fans reading this, the zero tolerance policy is still in effect. We have tried to work this out to the best of out abilities, and tried to let it run it's course. Once we have processed through everything and feel we are back to normal, the stickied warnings will be removed, and the ZTP lifted.

    I may not be able to answer many questions, including who is getting what ban, but I wanted membership to be aware of what is going on if they see that people can no longer access parts of the forum.

  2. #2
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    If you really want people to be aware of this, you should be posting it as a stickied thread in the MLB forum (at the bare minimum). Furthermore, this is on the mods as a group as much as anything for letting this behavior from one of their own slide completely unchecked for years. This was an issue that so many attempted to properly address but was unfairly swept under the rug to protect the little fraternity of moderators, and for that you have no one to blame but yourselves. I don't expect anything close to perfection from you guys but the handling of this particular situation over the years was a hypocritical mess that could have easily been avoided with a little common sense.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    If you really want people to be aware of this, you should be posting it as a stickied thread in the MLB forum (at the bare minimum). Furthermore, this is on the mods as a group as much as anything for letting this behavior from one of their own slide completely unchecked for years. This was an issue that so many attempted to properly address but was unfairly swept under the rug to protect the little fraternity of moderators, and for that you have no one to blame but yourselves. I don't expect anything close to perfection from you guys but the handling of this particular situation over the years was a hypocritical mess that could have easily been avoided with a little common sense.
    I'm going to share a reworded portion of part of the PM I just sent you.........you, along with a few other posters, forget that I'm pretty new here. While the tag says I've been a member since 2010, I've really only been an active poster here since right before the CFB season started in 2014. I've been a mod since the NFL season started in 2015, and Rush and I took over for SI at the end of last April when he stepped down. Up until threads in this section this April where we received complaints about ciaban, I was never aware he was an issue for so many. If I had received reported posts and feedback sooner, instead of taking this kind of attitude or thinking we weren't going to do anything, I would have been able to solve the issue sooner.

    Rush and I have implemented a lot of feedback for the site and for site moderation, I think we deserve a little leeway here compared to how things used to be, for better and for worse.

  4. #4
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    LAD/SFG forum drama

    spliff,

    I understand your frustration and feedback. We've been discussing Ciaban's behavior and recourse for some time behind the scenes.

    Some were for increased punishment and de-modification prior to today for Ciaban, but it never got to a majority decision until now. The staff was very upfront with their expectations for Ciaban going forward and he fell short of what he said he'd do and what we wanted to see from him.

    Hopefully everyone can see with the 5 separate actions we took with Ciaban following our decision, which included de-Modding, Forum Bans and an infraction, on how serious we took this matter and how we addressed it.

    We are sure there will be many to offer their feedback on this matter, which is why this thread was made for communication and transparency sake. I'd be lying to say we weren't a bit letdown about the situation as well. We live and we learn.

    Anyone is free to PM myself, another Mod or TT & Rush if anything needs to be discussed in a private manner, outside of here.
    Come Be The Apple Of The PWW Owner's Eye!






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  5. #5
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    I really do appreciate what TT and Rush have done. May not be resurrecting this place but they're doing their damnedest to keep it afloat (and try to improve).

    In saying this, so glad that troll is no longer a mod.

    Also, is this a general warning to any rival teams' forums? It should be. Maybe not make it a ZTP but put it on the level you guys did with a forum ban. I've seen enough, not many but still enough, times people complain about other fans coming into their team's forum and baiting/trolling with not much done. A one time is a warning, twice would be a forum ban, or however. There is decent enough engagement between rival fans that I have seen so anyone should be able to post in any forum but the times it because trolling/baiting is when a ban should be in order.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  6. #6
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    What I wrote a few posts up is not an admonishment of all the mods work; it was for their handling of this situation which has been festering for years now (and I will not take back a word that I said). I appreciate Rush, ThomasTomasz, and Timmmahhh all as pretty chill and fair mods but that doesn't absolve the moderator group as a whole from letting this situation reel out of control. I can certainly say that I appreciate what you guys have done and/or attempted to do to improve this site since the time SI stepped down, while still thinking that the mods treatment of this issue we're discussing was pretty defenseless (up until now).

    I have no regrets in not reporting more posts to avoid getting caught up in this because years of reporting this nonsense fell on deaf ears (and/or backfired and got myself caught up instead). Beyond that, I'm not trying to feed in to a culture of becoming a little tattle tale as soon as a conversation starts veering off the tracks a bit. I think to a certain degree posters should be trusted to police themselves and work through these situations. For better or worse, it seems apparent that things needed to come to a head in this sort of fashion for something to finally be done though. Whatever infractions and forum bans I received were more than worth this long overdue outcome for both myself and this site as a whole.

    So yeah, you're welcome. Here's to a more civil and enjoyable PSD moving forward.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  7. #7
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    I love what rush and Tim and others have done with this site but i hate that it takes the majority of mods to make this decision... Frankly i love both of you guys and most of the Mods on this site and I am glad he is no longer a Mod but its several months late in all honesty... I have never had issues with KJ or Spliff really but KJ always speaks his mind even against me and some of my idiotic takes at times and had done so with very little bias or hate and this that should have been enough to warrant some type of discussion on ciabs behavior... Then when you factor in the countless reports and just flat out trolling he should have been removed months ago... I thank you for it because the guy is alright as a poster and baits/walks the line with the rest of us but as a mod its a horrible mod thing to do.

    Him not being Mod is a step in the right direction but quite frankly it shouldnt have taken this long... Mods and super Mods should be held to higher standards than your average poster and this dude flat out knew the rules... knew of his power and said **** it and caused a good bit of giants fans and others to lash out daily... I am not sure who has been banned or infracted by reacting to this guy but that should be looked in on because it should be withdrawn. The dude was a horrid mod and for a very long time his behavior was enabled by most of the other mods on this site... Again I probably shouldnt throw stones because i walk that same line but I do so as a regular poster who has been banned/infracted and that is the difference.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    I really do appreciate what TT and Rush have done. May not be resurrecting this place but they're doing their damnedest to keep it afloat (and try to improve).

    In saying this, so glad that troll is no longer a mod.

    Also, is this a general warning to any rival teams' forums? It should be. Maybe not make it a ZTP but put it on the level you guys did with a forum ban. I've seen enough, not many but still enough, times people complain about other fans coming into their team's forum and baiting/trolling with not much done. A one time is a warning, twice would be a forum ban, or however. There is decent enough engagement between rival fans that I have seen so anyone should be able to post in any forum but the times it because trolling/baiting is when a ban should be in order.
    this is an issue but not nearly as big of an issue as when a poster goes into another teams or rival teams forum and gets ridiculed and baited left and right by posters because he is an out cast... I quite frankly find this to be one of the main issues in all honesty... if you go into any other teams threads their fans can bait/disrespect and do just about anything they want but if you say or do anything in return your ****ed... I visit the lakers/knicks/cubs/bears/eagles/celtics and so on down the list forums and when I say something they agree with I am a genius... Once I point out a negative you get destroyed and piled up on and mods do nothing in said forum even when they see it happening.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    this is an issue but not nearly as big of an issue as when a poster goes into another teams or rival teams forum and gets ridiculed and baited left and right by posters because he is an out cast... I quite frankly find this to be one of the main issues in all honesty... if you go into any other teams threads their fans can bait/disrespect and do just about anything they want but if you say or do anything in return your ****ed... I visit the lakers/knicks/cubs/bears/eagles/celtics and so on down the list forums and when I say something they agree with I am a genius... Once I point out a negative you get destroyed and piled up on and mods do nothing in said forum even when they see it happening.
    That's different than what I said. There's no reason a rival fan, or an opposing fan, shouldn't be able to enter those forums. I feel like the team's forum you enter should have more leeway/HCA if you will but everyone should be treated fairly. But if you don't think you'll get heat for going into an opposing teams' forum, you're naive and the **** you get is warranted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    That's different than what I said. There's no reason a rival fan, or an opposing fan, shouldn't be able to enter those forums. I feel like the team's forum you enter should have more leeway/HCA if you will but everyone should be treated fairly. But if you don't think you'll get heat for going into an opposing teams' forum, you're naive and the **** you get is warranted.
    its not an opposing team thing... go into any forum and even if you do it for a while and kiss a ton of ***... all will be fine.... the second... the very second you disagree with anything or ridicule said teams player its over... the baiting/trolling becomes insane and the non fans who explore many different areas have to take it... i have no issues with team forum fans having more rope because they should but being a fan of said team in said forum shouldn't equate to a license to bait/troll.

  11. #11
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    There are some posts here and PMs I intend to reply to, I've been very busy and hardly at home the past couple days so please give me some time to properly respond

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    its not an opposing team thing... go into any forum and even if you do it for a while and kiss a ton of ***... all will be fine.... the second... the very second you disagree with anything or ridicule said teams player its over... the baiting/trolling becomes insane and the non fans who explore many different areas have to take it... i have no issues with team forum fans having more rope because they should but being a fan of said team in said forum shouldn't equate to a license to bait/troll.
    Some posters are going to be that way regardless. That's evident by this thread even being created. I've seen it in the MLB, NFL, and NBA mains (sorry NHL ) with various different teams I didn't engage in. It's going to happen. Policing that is going to be difficult.

    I also wouldn't be opposed to having forum bans threatened to fans of that team in cases like this. You're a fan of the Lakers posting in the Lakers forum and a Celtics fan comes in there to talk, converse, civil debate and a Lakers poster is constantly baiting, I'd have the Lakers poster threatened with a forum ban. No reason civil discussion can't happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    its not an opposing team thing... go into any forum and even if you do it for a while and kiss a ton of ***... all will be fine.... the second... the very second you disagree with anything or ridicule said teams player its over... the baiting/trolling becomes insane and the non fans who explore many different areas have to take it... i have no issues with team forum fans having more rope because they should but being a fan of said team in said forum shouldn't equate to a license to bait/troll.
    I recently saw a moderator say something to the effect of "this is our territory" regarding a team forum.

    A ridiculous way to think on multiple levels.

    The rules for posting should be the same regardless of what team PSD labelled a poster a fan of.

    If PSD thinks a poster is a Dodger fan and they post "The Giants F'ing suck this year" in the Giants forum it's an infraction.
    But if PSD thinks a poster is a Giants fan and they post "The Giants F'ing suck this year" in the Giants forum it's fine.

    That don't make a lick of sense.

    And what if a poster primarily follows the Dodgers but also follows the Nationals, is it then an infraction for them to post "The Nationals F'ing suck this year" in the Nationals forum?

  14. #14
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    Makes plenty of sense to me.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Makes plenty of sense to me.
    Why?

    One might argue intent. Saying that "your own" team sucks might be considered an expression of frustration while saying that another team sucks might be an attempt to insult.

    But I was infracted some time ago for posting the Mets' expected playoff odds (per Fangraphs) in thread titled something like "Met's Playoff Chances". There was absolutely no intent to bait. I simply stated a fact just as I would have in the Dodger forum, but, because PSD has me labelled as a Dodger fan and not a Mets fan, it was baiting.

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