Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    73,997

    Tigers trade (barring a collapse) Justin Wilson and Alex Avila to the Cubs

    The deal would be Justin Wilson and Alex Avila for Jeimer Candelario, Isaac Paredes and a Player To Be Named Later or cash, I'm told.
    via Anthony Fenech

    A better deal than the crap JD Martinez trade, even if we are stock piling up on infielders. Have to wonder if Nick is on the move eventually or they are finally ending the 3B experiment, though not sure how that will effect next year with V-Mart still in place.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, MI
    Posts
    21,215
    there we go

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    73,997
    Signed out of the Dominican Republic for $500,000 in 2010, Candelario became part of a Cubs collection of position prospects that is unrivaled in recent memory. Many of those hitters fueled Chicago's drive to a 2016 World Series championship and others were used in trades that contributed to the title run. Candelario, meanwhile, had a strong second half in Triple-A and made his big league debut in July but remains hopelessly blocked at third base by Kris Bryant.

    That's a shame, because Candelario is a talented offensive player who could start for several clubs. A switch-hitter with a fluid stroke from both sides of the plate, he makes consistent hard contact and draws a healthy amount of walks. Most of his power has come in the form of doubles to this point, but he could develop into a 20-homer threat as he adds strength and experience.

    Though Candelario lacks speed and quickness, he has worked hard to become an average third baseman after there were questions earlier in his career as to whether he could stay there. His hands and arm play well at the hot corner, and his instincts help him make plays. He also has seen action at first base, but Anthony Rizzo won't relinquish that position with the Cubs anytime soon either.
    The Cubs have mined Mexico as well as any club in the last few years. They were especially productive there in 2015, when they purchased right-hander Jose Albertos from the Tijuana Bulls for $1.5 million and Paredes from the Mexico City Red Devils for $800,000. Just 17 years old when he came to the United States for his pro debut last summer, he batted .305 in the Rookie-level Arizona League and earned a promotion to low Class A for the Midwest League playoffs.

    Compared to Chicago's other top teenage infield prospects, Paredes has more pop than Aramis Ademan and Carlos Sepulveda, but less likelihood of playing up the middle. He has enough loft and bat speed from the right side of the plate to develop into a 15-homer threat. He also has a good feel for hitting, already showing the ability to control the strike zone and use the whole field.

    Paredes has enough arm strength to play anywhere in the infield, but his fringy speed and quickness limit his range. He could shift to second base but more scouts think he's destined for third base because he figures to lose a step as he fills out.
    via mlbpipeline

    Two INFs who can hit, what a novel concept. Bonus points for a switch hitter. It sounds like Candelario can be ready as soon as next year to make the club which would fit what the Tigers were looking for (cheap, young talent that is ready to play)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, MI
    Posts
    21,215
    considering how emotional AA supposedly was about trading JD, he must be damn near inconsolable about trading his son

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    2,679
    I like the deal but how many young 3rd baseman are we trying to collect here?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    11,844
    Candelario will probably move to 1B. Miggy should DH

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    11,844
    Or Castellanos could move over there too.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,979
    I don't like the deal at all. The Cubs have drained their minor league system of position players and we didn't get near the load these two should have generated. On top of that, we were dealing with other teams that had much better position players in their minor leagues (LAD, Milwaukee, Colorado, and even the Nationals) that I believe could have offered better deals. Maybe we took this because it's where Alex wanted to go and not which team offered the best deal. Here's how I look at these two prospects:

    Jeimer Canelario- He is a descending prospect according to Baseball America, where he is now rated #9 on the list of Cub's prospects. His defense is average at best, he's a career .270 minor league hitter with some power (14 HR's is his high in the minors), he does get on base (.360 OB%) though. My thing is I don't see him being any better than the 3B we just got from Arizona. I think he's worse defensively. He's not the ascending prospect I would have really liked to see us get for Wilson/Avila. Where does he fit next year? Does he go to 3B with Casty going to the outfield?

    Isaac Paredes- I actually don't mind him because he's only 18 and has room to grow, however, from what he's done so far, he's another light hitting good defensive SS. How many of those do we already have in our system?
    How about getting an OF who can play CF and steal some bases? The other teams interested had a ton of those in their systems. Paredes, IMO, will end up at 2B or 3B not because of his defense but because I think he will develop some power. Defensively, I think he's a slight step behind the SS we just got from Zona too so it's another reason I see him moving.

    In summary, I think Avila is getting shorted on his deals. He had so many other options, IMO, that he should have come away with a top CF prospect. In trading with the Cubs, their system had more pitchers with upside than position players so if you make the deal with them you get the top end pitchers not the depleted position players, one of which has slid down on the prospect listing. Candelario's defense is going to put him at 1B eventually and I don't see much more than a .260 hitter with 15-20 HR potential. He will get on base but he's not, I repeat not, the #1 prospect that MLB lists him as on their site. We'll see but so far in his short career in the MLB he's a .173 batter. Peredes, I have higher hopes for but he's still not going to amount to what I feel Avila could have gotten in this trade.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,768
    I don't love it, but it is a decent return. I think we see how much interest there is in Wilson and expected stud prospect. If the Nats were offering Robles or the Astros were offering Fisher or Tucker, we'd have had them. Candelerio is top 100 and I have been watching the Cubs forum and several fans were hoping Paredes wasn't going to ne part of the deal. Avila is no loss at all. Wilson is a nice RP but he is just that.....a RP. Anyone expecting a top 25-30 prospect in return will obviously be disappointed.

    Since I graded the JD trade a D- I think I'd rate this trade a solid B. Wasn't who I was hoping for, but not a bad consolation prize.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,979
    Just to show I'm not alone in not liking this deal:

    That doesn't mean the Tigers got a spectacular return and won the trade, however. In grading the trade early this morning on ESPN.com, senior writer David Schoenfield gave the Tigers a C+, while the Cubs earned an A.

    "I think (Candelario) has been a little overhyped as a prospect - MLB.com had him as the Cubs' top prospect after the trade of Eloy Jimenez, as he seems to be a player with a high floor compared to a high ceiling," Schoenfield wrote. "He's viewed as an average defensive third baseman, which would be a big edge over the awful Nick Castellanos.

    "Paredes is an 18-year-old holding his own in the Midwest League, has some power potential, but probably doesn't stick at shortstop. If you look at Candalerio, it's a solid return for Detroit, but Wilson is probably the top reliever available and I thought the Tigers could do a little better for him and Avila."

    Here's what FanGraphs writer Dave Cameron had to say about Candelario:


    ... The Tigers arenít getting any kind of sure thing here; this prospect profile has often led to disappointing big league performances.

    But as a young switch hitter with some upside who might be capable of going right to Detroit, the Tigers get someone whose value could increase quickly if he hits out of the gate. If they can show that heís either a good enough defender to play third in the big leagues or hit better than the projections expected, Candelario could be a nice solid piece for them long-term. Thereís probably not a lot of high-end potential here, but Candelario looks like a pretty safe bet to provide some value in the big leagues.


    IMO, you have to get a sure fire prospect out of the combination of Wilson/Avila and we didn't. Just another reason Al Avila isn't a good GM to me.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    11,844
    LA is refusing to trade their top prospects so it doesn't look like they were an option. I don't mind this deal at all.

    An espn writer's grade doesn't mean **** to me. And I think everybody is overvaluing a backup catcher and a good reliever.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,768
    Quote Originally Posted by One Nut Kruk View Post
    LA is refusing to trade their top prospects so it doesn't look like they were an option. I don't mind this deal at all.

    An espn writer's grade doesn't mean **** to me. And I think everybody is overvaluing a backup catcher and a good reliever.

    To add to what ONK said (which I agree with 100%), ESPN loves them some Theo Epstein. He could trade Kris Bryant for Anibal Sanchez and those slappys would still give him a B on the deal.

    Unfortunately, we become saturated with rumors and speculation. Truth is that we will never know how serious the interest was. As I mentioned, if you believe the talk, then WAS was not going to give up Robles or Soto. Also heard the Tigers asked for Fisher (as did BAL for Britton) and Houston won't deal their top 2. Word also says that the Dodgers won't include Verdugo or their top guys for Gray let alone Wilson. I guess what I am getting at is even though the interest was there, the dreams of a stud prospect wasn't happening. Especially with Britton (who is better) and Hand (about the same also out there. Now if we see Brad Hand getting moved for a top 50 prospect, I will retract my statement. Britton could get more because after all....he is better than Wilson. I like Wilson, but outside of this year (and he has struggled a little lately), he doesn't have a great track record. Always has iffy splits. I think the Tigers got a fair return.

    Could they have done better? Maybe. However, as much as I dislike Avila, I think he did OK in the trade. Sounds like Fangraphs is big on Paredes as are many Cub fans.

    On the flip side, I am looking forward to what Hicks can do with more playing time in the bigs.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    10,190
    We won't know how either of these trades work out for 2-3 years. It seems the trade market is definitely a buyers market as last year was a sellers market. I actually like the return here from what I have read. I like how we have added a ton of MIF prospects and as long as 1-2 of them pan out then AA did well.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    N
    Posts
    19,731
    I don't like it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,768
    For those who don't like it, I am curious as to what your expectations are/were? We got a top 100 prospect AND an 18 yr old that cubs fans and fangraphs are enthusiastic about. Both project to be starting caliber players. This for a RP with a limited track record of success as anything more than a solid pen arm and a veteran backup free agent C who is crashing back to reality with every at bat.

    Fisher, Verdugo, Tucker, Robles were not being dealt for Wilson. We weren't going to get a top 25-30 prospect. Even if only one of these guys turn into as solid every day player and the other doesn't pan out, that is not bad for a RP (who are volatile).

    As I said, lets see what (if anything) San Diego gets for Hand (who is a pretty good comparison) before we judge this trade too much. If SD gets Fisher, Robles, Verdugo for Hand, I will be happy to change my tune.
    I won't give Avila a homerun on this deal, but after going 0-4 with 3 strikeouts, I'll take tis double and be content with it.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •