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  1. #1591
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    My new theory. FO want's to get rid of Winslow and Spo is trying to make a case for him....or they're just trying to pad playing time to increase his value for the summer trade season.

  2. #1592
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Anytime you need to preface a stat to exclude something tells you there's something wrong overall and you're probably going to skew the numbers.

    I don't know where you got your numbers from, but simply viewing plain old Basketball-Reference as of 03/04/18:
    https://www.basketball-reference.com.../MIA/2018.html


    On the season, Winslow is negative in box score plus minus he's -1.3. Out of the 9 players in the "regular rotation" (Dragić, TJ, Richardson, Ellington, Winslow, JJ, Olynk, Whiteside, Bam), that ranks him as dead last in the group.


    On the season using the same standard of the main 9 man rotation, Winslow has a 0.2 VORP (value over replacement player), which is also dead last in the group.


    For me, these stats along with the eye test has told me all along we're probably better leaving him off the rotation and just playing the other guys more minutes.

    It's also unsurprising that Whiteside ranks as 8th just one slot above Winslow in both these categories also.

    The team just does better without these 2 guys seemingly.
    Well if u look at ur comment and u look at my comment, it clearly states since Dec. 9th. Iím not talking about the whole year. My whole point in putting this up is to show u all that he isnít the main problem with this team like some of u make him to be. The #ís prove it. He can play a useful part on this team. Not as a superstar or anything like that, but he can be useful.
    [/CENTER]

  3. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by king james View Post
    Well if u look at ur comment and u look at my comment, it clearly states since Dec. 9th. Iím not talking about the whole year. My whole point in putting this up is to show u all that he isnít the main problem with this team like some of u make him to be. The #ís prove it. He can play a useful part on this team. Not as a superstar or anything like that, but he can be useful.
    Great, trade him in the summer. Maybe we can fool some other team.

  4. #1594
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    Quote Originally Posted by king james View Post
    Well if u look at ur comment and u look at my comment, it clearly states since Dec. 9th. Iím not talking about the whole year. My whole point in putting this up is to show u all that he isnít the main problem with this team like some of u make him to be. The #ís prove it. He can play a useful part on this team. Not as a superstar or anything like that, but he can be useful.

    Not really.

    When you skew the stats by selecting certain dates it comes across as total BS. I know these aren't your quotes and you're just reading the article but its silly "the team has been better since December 9". Like Winslow was injured 3 games after December 9th and missed 14 straight games.

    Let me also show you Winslow's 9 games before December 9th. -20, -4, +6, -4, -14, -19, -16, -11, -8.

    Also it's clear you're after an agenda when the writer selects dates where he's injured along with several others for several games in the range. Considering he was injured, Waiters, and Hassan during that time frame and we also lost Dragić and TJ for a few. Of course the team may have a really and ugly loss during that time frame again skewing the stats (which we did have an 18 point loss during his injury dates). So it definitely might come out overall to make Winslow look good.

    Winslow is clearly the weakest links in our main rotation.

  5. #1595
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    Itís clear that u arenít willing to give the man any credit at all. Iím not saying that he is straight up balling. Iím not saying that u donít use him in a trade or anything like that. All Iím saying is heís not the blame for all our struggles like some are saying. U canít be so blind with disappointment on Winslow that u canít see that he is making improvements. He hasnít set the world on 🔥, but he is getting better. Slowly but surely. He has still only played 1 full season in this league.

    Itís not like we are going to win the title this year. So I for the life of me donít understand why itís such a issue with giving this guy the time he needs to try and develop and become a better player that could end up helping us get a better player in a trade or he becomes a guy that plays a role on this team. Itís not like heís taking time away from someone else on the bench. Itís not like heís making a lot of money. So if we arenít competing for a title, heís not blocking a spot for another player and heís not making a lot of money. What is a good reason why we canít give this guy time to develop.
    [/CENTER]

  6. #1596
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    Quote Originally Posted by king james View Post
    Itís clear that u arenít willing to give the man any credit at all. Iím not saying that he is straight up balling. Iím not saying that u donít use him in a trade or anything like that. All Iím saying is heís not the blame for all our struggles like some are saying. U canít be so blind with disappointment on Winslow that u canít see that he is making improvements. He hasnít set the world on 🔥, but he is getting better. Slowly but surely. He has still only played 1 full season in this league.

    Itís not like we are going to win the title this year. So I for the life of me donít understand why itís such a issue with giving this guy the time he needs to try and develop and become a better player that could end up helping us get a better player in a trade or he becomes a guy that plays a role on this team. Itís not like heís taking time away from someone else on the bench. Itís not like heís making a lot of money. So if we arenít competing for a title, heís not blocking a spot for another player and heís not making a lot of money. What is a good reason why we canít give this guy time to develop.
    Nah, it's clear that you keep misreading what I've said repeatedly. I never blamed Winslow for anything other than being garbage and Spo insisting on playing a guy big minutes who isn't earning his minutes.

    I've said he's the weakest player in the rotation and the rotation should be shortened with how he was playing early in the season. I never seem another player have multiple 0-6 or 1-6 shooting games and hold onto the starter spot like he had. The last handful of games he's really improved. Hopefully he can build on this.

    I still think Winslow is garbage but hope he proves me wrong. But I think he's going to play just good enough that Miami invests in him long term with a J-Rich type of contract where he makes $10+ a season. Then he's going to fall off and go right back to chucking bricks. Even though his shot is falling, I dislike his form. Not a fluid and natural elevation or follow thru.

  7. #1597
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Nah, it's clear that you keep misreading what I've said repeatedly. I never blamed Winslow for anything other than being garbage and Spo insisting on playing a guy big minutes who isn't earning his minutes.

    I've said he's the weakest player in the rotation and the rotation should be shortened with how he was playing early in the season. I never seem another player have multiple 0-6 or 1-6 shooting games and hold onto the starter spot like he had. The last handful of games he's really improved. Hopefully he can build on this.

    I still think Winslow is garbage but hope he proves me wrong. But I think he's going to play just good enough that Miami invests in him long term with a J-Rich type of contract where he makes $10+ a season. Then he's going to fall off and go right back to chucking bricks. Even though his shot is falling, I dislike his form. Not a fluid and natural elevation or follow thru.
    Ok I wasnít speaking or saying that u per say was the one who said that he was the main source for our struggles. That why I said ď some are sayingĒ I never said u. I was speaking in general.

    My thing is letís hopefully see him over a longer period of time w/o injuries and see if he can turn the corner. There is no way that I would extend him. I would give him a chance next year and see what happens, if he ends this year and plays the 1st half of the year right Iíll try and trade him then or just give him a deal after the season. If someone wants to give him big money then so be it. ✌️
    [/CENTER]

  8. #1598
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    Nah, it's clear that you keep misreading what I've said repeatedly. I never blamed Winslow for anything other than being garbage and Spo insisting on playing a guy big minutes who isn't earning his minutes.

    I've said he's the weakest player in the rotation and the rotation should be shortened with how he was playing early in the season. I never seem another player have multiple 0-6 or 1-6 shooting games and hold onto the starter spot like he had. The last handful of games he's really improved. Hopefully he can build on this.

    I still think Winslow is garbage but hope he proves me wrong. But I think he's going to play just good enough that Miami invests in him long term with a J-Rich type of contract where he makes $10+ a season. Then he's going to fall off and go right back to chucking bricks. Even though his shot is falling, I dislike his form. Not a fluid and natural elevation or follow thru.
    Yea, I keep on looking at Winslows shooting mechanics and it does seem like he's getting more arc on his shot with a higher release point but defenders are still giving him a lot of space to shoot, I want to see what happens when players regularly contest those shots

    Also hes been better around the rim....I can't remember how many easy layups Winslow has missed in the past, it was maddening......The league average FG% for shots around the rim is 57.9% and Winslow has shot 47.4% on the season but recently over his last 5 games he's shooting 59.1% around the basket

    Who knows if this is a blip or trend but I think as Heat fans I can safely say we want him to be better....consistently

  9. #1599
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    So, umm....we cannot afford to lose Ellington. Pat better figure this out.

  10. #1600
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllBall View Post
    So, umm....we cannot afford to lose Ellington. Pat better figure this out.
    I'm not 100% sure, so I could be wrong with my math but the highest we can offer him is 175% of his current salary than with 8% increases with a four year contract

    So the starting salary would be $10,972,500....the average salary would be $12,289,200 and the total would be 4years/$49,156,800

    I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure thats he highest we can offer him

    Not many teams have cap space next summer so IDK how many teams will be willing to go to say $14 million annual for Ellington......The hope is, he really likes it here, understands the benefits we bring with his career and state taxes plus an annual of $12.3 million is a great offer with a flat salary cap

    Lou Williams contract extension was a 3year/$24million contract and that was used with full bird rights....since we only have early bird rights the highest we can go to, $12.3 million annual, might actually be considered an overpay with the Lou Williams extension

    Long story short....I think it will come down to how far into the tax we are willing to go....Since we already have potential off-guards in Mcgruder, TJ, Wade, JRich our front office might think its not worth it.....Clearly, though, we are a better team when Ellington plays, his shooting is SO important to our offense

  11. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-In View Post
    I'm not 100% sure, so I could be wrong with my math but the highest we can offer him is 175% of his current salary than with 8% increases with a four year contract

    So the starting salary would be $10,972,500....the average salary would be $12,289,200 and the total would be 4years/$49,156,800

    I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure thats he highest we can offer him

    Not many teams have cap space next summer so IDK how many teams will be willing to go to say $14 million annual for Ellington......The hope is, he really likes it here, understands the benefits we bring with his career and state taxes plus an annual of $12.3 million is a great offer with a flat salary cap

    Lou Williams contract extension was a 3year/$24million contract and that was used with full bird rights....since we only have early bird rights the highest we can go to, $12.3 million annual, might actually be considered an overpay with the Lou Williams extension

    Long story short....I think it will come down to how far into the tax we are willing to go....Since we already have potential off-guards in Mcgruder, TJ, Wade, JRich our front office might think its not worth it.....Clearly, though, we are a better team when Ellington plays, his shooting is SO important to our offense
    Yep, a guy like that gets hot and it's a complete game changer.
    RIP lol, please!

    8/1/2011 - 01/28/2018

    You may not be with us anymore but your name, legacy, and what you stood for will last forever!


  12. #1602
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    hotdalton18 is offline Jags&Heat&Dodgers&Gators
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    Roster Speculation Thread XX

    If nothing else Winslow is making his value jump right now

    Dude has been good on both ends



    2015-16 DPOY


    Hassan Whiteside

  13. #1603
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    Iíve been team Winslow this whole time, hopefully he can continue stacking up good performances and elevate his game to the next level. Wade just made an Instagram post about how Justise is his little brother so Iím sure the return of Wade has helped Justise out quite a bit

  14. #1604
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    I've been a big Winslow hater this year but I'll admit he's looked better recently. There are still some questionable choices or times where he tries to do to much with the ball but there has been recent improvement. If nothing else he's at least increasing his value for a potential trade this off-season. I want to be wrong about Winslow because I would hate him to be a bust/wasted pick so I hope he continues to prove me wrong.

  15. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCarlson85 View Post
    I've been a big Winslow hater this year but I'll admit he's looked better recently. There are still some questionable choices or times where he tries to do to much with the ball but there has been recent improvement. If nothing else he's at least increasing his value for a potential trade this off-season. I want to be wrong about Winslow because I would hate him to be a bust/wasted pick so I hope he continues to prove me wrong.
    Would be nice to change that pick to Booker.
    RIP lol, please!

    8/1/2011 - 01/28/2018

    You may not be with us anymore but your name, legacy, and what you stood for will last forever!


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