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Thread: De minimis

  1. #16
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    Baseball Maverick: How Sandy Alderson Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets
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  2. #17
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    https://twitter.com/MarcCarig/status/885986365338472453

    Don't get hung up on buzz words. He's not ignorant to the fact that his team is playing poor defense and I dont think he's minimizing it to the extent that its being reported. He just tends to value offense more so and suggests the main problem has been the lousy pitching which is very true. Defense is important but they're going to get better defensively by default with the roster overhaul that's coming.

    You have one consistent SP and 2 consistent bullpen arms. Hard to win like that.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-15-2017 at 01:08 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    https://twitter.com/MarcCarig/status/885986365338472453

    Don't get hung up on buzz words. He's not ignorant to the fact that his team is playing poor defense and I dont think he's minimizing it to the extent that its being reported. He just tends to value offense more so and suggests the main problem has been the lousy pitching which is very true. Defense is important but they're going to get better defensively by default with the roster overhaul that's coming.

    You have one consistent SP and 2 consistent bullpen arms. Hard to win like that.
    It did sound like some reactionary reporting...and I may have had a hit too much...or a drink too many. When I responded to it.


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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Apparently this is the phrase Sandy used to describe the importance of defense.

    I dunno. Seems the more outs you dont make in the field, the more chances you give batters and the more stress you put on your own pitchers.

    Bad philosophy IMO
    I think the Maverick figures if he says something asinine but does it in Latin, everybody will be so intimidated by his education, nobody will call him out for being an idiot.

    Speaking of defense, anybody still think we're going to see Rosario before the Super 2 deadline next year?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I think the Maverick figures if he says something asinine but does it in Latin, everybody will be so intimidated by his education, nobody will call him out for being an idiot.

    Speaking of defense, anybody still think we're going to see Rosario before the Super 2 deadline next year?
    Or maybe its common language in law? It's not like he has a legal degree from Harvard or anything...

    Oh wait.

    Not to mention, I dont think anyone in the media has the general contempt for him you do. Nor is their partisanship so completely obvious that it doesn't allow them to report on things in an objective manner.

    As for Rosario, expect him and Smith to be up in August.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-16-2017 at 04:05 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I think the Maverick figures if he says something asinine but does it in Latin, everybody will be so intimidated by his education, nobody will call him out for being an idiot.

    Speaking of defense, anybody still think we're going to see Rosario before the Super 2 deadline next year?
    Well that's an extreme misinterpretation .

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Or maybe its common language in law? It's not like he has a legal degree from Harvard or anything...

    Oh wait.

    Not to mention, I dont think anyone in the media has the general contempt for him you do. Nor is their partisanship so completely obvious that it doesn't allow them to report on things in an objective manner.

    As for Rosario, expect him and Smith to be up in August.
    I think this is the article the "de minimis" comment comes from:

    http://nypost.com/2017/07/15/alderso...depends-on-it/

    “As a partial indictment of myself, what you have to do is you have to make choices about defense, athleticism, offense, etc. You have to set priorities. I wouldn’t say defense has always been our highest priority, and that goes all the way back to the World Series year of 2015.

    “On the other hand there’s sort of a de minimis level that one needs to hit.”

    That was a way to say defensive-wizard Amed Rosario would not have fixed the problem in Alderson’s eyes.

    When the shortstop arrives from Triple-A, Rosario will help that defense, but Alderson said: “It’s a little simplistic to just say, we’ll if we insert one player we are going to solve the defensive issues that we face at seven or eight positions. I understand everybody wants to see Rosario in a Mets uniform, so do I.’’
    Alderson's task is unenviable. Logic dictates Rosario should be on the Mets. The only conceivable reason he's not is Fred's trying to push back his arbitral years, but Alderson can't just say this to the press. He has to tap dance around any questions about team defense.

    So he's basically admitting the defense sucks, while simultaneously trying to justify not bringing a defensive whiz onto the team. There's no way to make it sound good.

    I think he threw in a bit of Latin as a subtle appeal to authority; a reminder he's more educated than the rest of us, regardless of the obvious idiocy he's spewing. Or maybe, as a lawyer, he just lapses into Latin when tap dancing around the truth.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I think this is the article the "de minimis" comment comes from:

    http://nypost.com/2017/07/15/alderso...depends-on-it/



    Alderson's task is unenviable. Logic dictates Rosario should be on the Mets. The only conceivable reason he's not is Fred's trying to push back his arbitral years, but Alderson can't just say this to the press. He has to tap dance around any questions about team defense.

    So he's basically admitting the defense sucks, while simultaneously trying to justify not bringing a defensive whiz onto the team. There's no way to make it sound good.

    I think he threw in a bit of Latin as a subtle appeal to authority; a reminder he's more educated than the rest of us, regardless of the obvious idiocy he's spewing. Or maybe, as a lawyer, he just lapses into Latin when tap dancing around the truth.
    If he's not here next June then it was solely about arbitral reasons. In this case you're going to see him in the next 3 weeks once the deadline passes and the Mets starting selling off the roster. Look at this current moment its complicated by the fact that Rosario probably doesn't hit as well as Reyes as over the last 25 games (.333) and the defensive difference (even if we assume he's Lindor at the position) is what 3-5 runs the rest of the season? Bringing up Rosario doesn't just change the fact that their INF as a whole has statistically been the worst in baseball in terms of defense.

    And lets call a spade a spade. Fans don't want Rosario up here because of his defense. They want him up here because they want something to be excited about in a lost season. Understandable but front offices can't work with that mindset. The Mets need to focus on his development first and foremost then worry about trading this "INF" glut they have. I put that in quotation marks because there are still guys out of position even with all these guys who are "INF". Like its crazy none of them can play a consistent 3rd base.

    He's not spewing idiocy. The lousy pitching is the main reason why this team sucks ***. All you need to look at is the last 2 years for that. Their pitching was great and although lack of defense was an issue they were able to succeed in spite of that. Defense is secondary and in this case, tertiary when you are talking about addressing one position and not the whole. Bring up Dominic Smith, get a 3rd baseman, get Conforto out of CF and if they can do that all before July 31st then there "fixing" the defense.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-16-2017 at 05:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I think the Maverick figures if he says something asinine but does it in Latin, everybody will be so intimidated by his education, nobody will call him out for being an idiot.

    Speaking of defense, anybody still think we're going to see Rosario before the Super 2 deadline next year?
    Lmao Coupon is my favorite poster on this board.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I think this is the article the "de minimis" comment comes from:

    http://nypost.com/2017/07/15/alderso...depends-on-it/



    Alderson's task is unenviable. Logic dictates Rosario should be on the Mets. The only conceivable reason he's not is Fred's trying to push back his arbitral years, but Alderson can't just say this to the press. He has to tap dance around any questions about team defense.
    He's saying, "“It’s a little simplistic to just say, we’ll if we insert one player we are going to solve the defensive issues that we face at seven or eight positions. I understand everybody wants to see Rosario in a Mets uniform, so do I.’’

    In the meantime, there are facets of his game that Rosario should be working on. Meanwhile Reyes/Cabrera are productive at SS/2B. Reyes has a 1.000+ OPS over his last 23 games played and Cabrera is at .837 OPS during the same time frame. Rosario isn't changing the Mets fortunes in 2017. Let him develop at AAA accordingly -- and if you think a .320 AVG at Vegas is impressive -- it's really no better than roughly .290 in the International League. Steamer converts his AAA numbers to a wRC+ of 79. He's also got a walk rate of about 5% and 15 errors.

    Regardless, I'll be in Vegas and at a game Wednesday night to provide a recommendation or not for his promotion.
    Baseball Maverick: How Sandy Alderson Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    If he's not here next June then it was solely about arbitral reasons. In this case you're going to see him in the next 3 weeks once the deadline passes and the Mets starting selling off the roster. Look at this current moment its complicated by the fact that Rosario probably doesn't hit as well as Reyes as over the last 25 games (.333) and the defensive difference (even if we assume he's Lindor at the position) is what 3-5 runs the rest of the season? Bringing up Rosario doesn't just change the fact that their INF as a whole has statistically been the worst in baseball in terms of defense.

    And lets call a spade a spade. Fans don't want Rosario up here because of his defense. They want him up here because they want something to be excited about in a lost season. Understandable but front offices can't work with that mindset. The Mets need to focus on his development first and foremost then worry about trading this "INF" glut they have. I put that in quotation marks because there are still guys out of position even with all these guys who are "INF". Like its crazy none of them can play a consistent 3rd base.

    He's not spewing idiocy. The lousy pitching is the main reason why this team sucks ***. All you need to look at is the last 2 years for that. Their pitching was great and although lack of defense was an issue they were able to succeed in spite of that. Defense is secondary and in this case, tertiary when you are talking about addressing one position and not the whole. Bring up Dominic Smith, get a 3rd baseman, get Conforto out of CF and if they can do that all before July 31st then there "fixing" the defense.
    I believe fans want to see a solid defensive SS which we haven't had since Jose left after 2011.
    Yes, pitching is number #1, but we've given up way too many runs due to an ineffective defense, especially at SS.

    Fans also want to see an exciting young player who by all accounts is major league ready. I'm one of those fans that don't follow the minors, but Rosario is in the baseball media practically everyday with a Dominic Smith not too far behind. I can't help but read about these guys.

    Change is needed now! SA continues to make excuses and sidestep the issue. This is mismanagement.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    Lmao Coupon is my favorite poster on this board.
    Hustla, I agree he is one of the best posters too. His arguments throughout the years have been real world and reasonable.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie6986 View Post
    I believe fans want to see a solid defensive SS which we haven't had since Jose left after 2011.
    Yes, pitching is number #1, but we've given up way too many runs due to an ineffective defense, especially at SS.

    Fans also want to see an exciting young player who by all accounts is major league ready. I'm one of those fans that don't follow the minors, but Rosario is in the baseball media practically everyday with a Dominic Smith not too far behind. I can't help but read about these guys.

    Change is needed now! SA continues to make excuses and sidestep the issue. This is mismanagement.
    See I dont buy that to be honest. The reason I say that is because even the best defensive players are only going to save 20 runs a year. That's elite of the elite level type defense (think Omar Vizquel) and Rosario by all accounts isn't that defensively, neither can he do that in an abbreviated season. So safe to say even if he saved 5 runs over his counterparts defensively what does that mean in the 70+ games they have left?

    I dont question he's a better defender than Reyes btw.

    That said, his development is still the most important thing here, especially in a lost season. Look I want to see him too but this is more about fans looking towards the future and their anticipation than it is his immediate play on the field and how who he is about to succeed is doing.

    He's fresh blood. Everyone loves fresh blood.
    Last edited by metswon69; 07-17-2017 at 02:07 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    See I dont buy that to be honest. The reason I say that is because even the best defensive players are only going to save 20 runs a year. That's elite of the elite level type defense (think Omar Vizquel) and Rosario by all accounts isn't that defensively, neither can he do that in an abbreviated season. So safe to say even if he saved 5 runs over his counterparts defensively what does that mean in the 70+ games they have left?

    I dont question he's a better defender than Reyes btw.

    That said, his development is still the most important thing here, especially in a lost season. Look I want to see him too but this is more about fans looking towards the future and their anticipation than it is his immediate play on the field and how who is about to succeed is doing.

    He's fresh blood. Everyone loves fresh blood.
    And, there's nothing like the smell of fresh, new blood........

    Again, I have never seen him play. But, if he's better defensively than Jose he should be brought up.

    I assume and i could wrong, but either Jose or Cabrera will be dealt by August.

    Man, do I hate baseball politics.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hustla23 View Post
    Lmao Coupon is my favorite poster on this board.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie6986 View Post
    Hustla, I agree he is one of the best posters too. His arguments throughout the years have been real world and reasonable.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    If he's not here next June then it was solely about arbitral reasons. In this case you're going to see him in the next 3 weeks once the deadline passes and the Mets starting selling off the roster. Look at this current moment its complicated by the fact that Rosario probably doesn't hit as well as Reyes as over the last 25 games (.333) and the defensive difference (even if we assume he's Lindor at the position) is what 3-5 runs the rest of the season? Bringing up Rosario doesn't just change the fact that their INF as a whole has statistically been the worst in baseball in terms of defense.

    And lets call a spade a spade. Fans don't want Rosario up here because of his defense. They want him up here because they want something to be excited about in a lost season. Understandable but front offices can't work with that mindset. The Mets need to focus on his development first and foremost then worry about trading this "INF" glut they have. I put that in quotation marks because there are still guys out of position even with all these guys who are "INF". Like its crazy none of them can play a consistent 3rd base.

    He's not spewing idiocy. The lousy pitching is the main reason why this team sucks ***. All you need to look at is the last 2 years for that. Their pitching was great and although lack of defense was an issue they were able to succeed in spite of that. Defense is secondary and in this case, tertiary when you are talking about addressing one position and not the whole. Bring up Dominic Smith, get a 3rd baseman, get Conforto out of CF and if they can do that all before July 31st then there "fixing" the defense.
    The pitching wouldn't have been as lousy if he'd signed some good bullpen help. The starters were overextended because going to the bullpen meant automatic defeat. This led to a cascade effect in which the pitching staff imploded. The poor defense from the left side of the infield played a role.

    If Rosario was here in April, like he should have been, it would have saved a lot of unnecessary pitches and maybe the starters could have gone longer and the bullpen wouldn't have burned out by May.

    Horrible injury management played a role, too, but the Maverick's responsibility for that is questionable.

    Look, I'm trying to give Alderson the benefit of the doubt. He just said maybe the dumbest thing I've ever heard from a ML GM. I could just chalk it up as further evidence of his unfitness for his job. Instead I'm attributing responsibility to a cheap boss.

    One thing I can't figure out, though. If Alderson thinks defense is "de minimus", why was he so eager to push Daniel Murphy out the door? After slashing .347/.390/.585 last season, he's up to .348/.400/.595 this season after a 3 hit, 2 HR, 5 RBI day today. Some "net negative".

    My guess is Fred was probably adamant about not dishing out a multi-year market rate contract and the rationale was tailored to fit the situation. Either the Maverick has completely changed his tune about defense, or much of what he says is meant to cover up the pathological cheapness of the organization. There's no common thread of logic.

    That was the question Kernan should have followed up with. Too bad. I'm sure the genius would have come up with an interesting way to deflect it. It would have made a fun read.

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