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  1. #376
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    Davis or Holland


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  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Davis or Holland


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    I don't know how Ike Davis or the region of Holland have to do with this.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Potential, sure, but are they worth 3-4 year deals?

    I would rather see Plawecki and hope he continues to improve. They have much more urgent needs at 3rd base, at closer if Familia continues to show no velocity, and a SP who can give them innings. All of those things will potentially eat up any budget space they have (assuming they spend much of anything which from all the hints Alderson is giving sounds unlikely).
    I realize they probably won't upgrade catcher, kinda like they probably won't upgrade 3rd base.

    But if a team that's on pace to go 71-91 wants to actually compete, at some point they're going to have to invest in upgrades instead of praying that a bunch of mediocre platoon players are going to add up to a division title.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  4. #379
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    C: Plawecki/d'Arnaud
    1B: Smith
    2B: Rivera/Flores
    3B: Cabrera
    SS: Rosario
    LF: Cespedes
    CF: Nimmo/Lagares
    RF: Conforto

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    I realize they probably won't upgrade catcher, kinda like they probably won't upgrade 3rd base.

    But if a team that's on pace to go 71-91 wants to actually compete, at some point they're going to have to invest in upgrades instead of praying that a bunch of mediocre platoon players are going to add up to a division title.
    The only way you're going to know what you have is by playing the guys you have. That's why Rivera, Bruce, etc were moved and so far, Plawecki and Nimmo have shown promise. Enough promise that you can consider them potential starters next year and not another item on the list of things you need and with the Mets payroll, most likely won't get.

    I agree with you that they need outside help but it may not be in all the places you or I may have expected it to be. For example, who would have guessed the Mets would have the worst SP ERA in the NL this year? Sometimes things happen unexpectedly that are good and bad.

    Whatever the case is, the only position player I would look for this offseason as a starter would be Moustakas, especially if Nimmo and Plawecki keep hitting.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-10-2017 at 10:59 PM.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    The only way you're going to know what you have is by playing the guys you have. That's why Rivera, Bruce, etc were moved and so far, Plawecki and Nimmo have shown promise. Enough promise that you can consider them potential starters next year and not another item on the list of things you need and with the Mets payroll, most likely won't get.

    I agree with you that they need outside help but it may not be in all the places you or I may have expected it to be. For example, who would have guessed the Mets would have the worst SP ERA in the NL this year? Sometimes things happen unexpectedly that are good and bad.

    Whatever the case is, the only position player I would look for this offseason as a starter would be Moustakas, especially if Nimmo and Plawecki keep hitting.
    It wouldn't matter if Nimmo and KPlaw were total busts. We won't approach this year's salary no matter what. Because we are budgeted like a mid-market team, and that's literally all that matters.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    It wouldn't matter if Nimmo and KPlaw were total busts. We won't approach this year's salary no matter what. Because we are budgeted like a mid-market team, and that's literally all that matters.
    I understand that but perhaps the Mets would look to trade for talent in those areas instead of free agency. If Plawecki and Nimmo aren't busts, they don't have to do that and it becomes one less question mark for next year, 2019, etc. Not to mention a way in which this team could actually be contenders instead of pretenders in 2018 if those guys exceed expectations..

    I don't know what they are going to do in the offseason. I don't expect Moustakas at all but I don't think they sit completely idle, nor do I think they make a Jon Rauch/Francisco move. I think they'll look for potential 3rd baseman in trade, add a SP, and at least retain some of their bench pieces.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-10-2017 at 11:49 PM.

  8. #383
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    Mid market teams can find a way to have addition through subtraction as well. The Mets can move or not retain certain players that will allow them budget space to address other areas. It's not a complete gridlock.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I understand that but perhaps the Mets would look to trade for talent in those areas instead of free agency. If Plawecki and Nimmo aren't busts, they don't have to do that and it becomes one less question mark for next year, 2019, etc. Not to mention a way in which this team could actually be contenders instead of pretenders in 2018 if those guys exceed expectations..

    I don't know what they are going to do in the offseason. I don't expect Moustakas at all but I don't think they sit completely idle, nor do I think they make a Jon Rauch/Francisco move. I think they'll look for potential 3rd baseman in trade, add a SP, and at least retain some of their bench pieces.
    I think you're going to be extremely disappointed.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    I think you're going to be extremely disappointed.
    I'm not getting my hopes up. I understand the Mets are in the business of tempering expectations but I don't think Alderson treats this offseason like he did when they were rebuilding.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I'm not getting my hopes up. I understand the Mets are in the business of tempering expectations but I don't think Alderson treats this offseason like he did when they were rebuilding.
    And I'm saying I don't think Alderson has a say in the matter. Significantly improving this team will require adding payroll, even in trades. Unless you propose moving deGrom or Thor for a ransom of cheap, young talent, which would defeat the purpose anyway, what we need are guys already proven. Those guys, unfortunately, for the most part are already paid market value, which we clearly can't afford.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    And I'm saying I don't think Alderson has a say in the matter. Significantly improving this team will require adding payroll, even in trades. Unless you propose moving deGrom or Thor for a ransom of cheap, young talent, which would defeat the purpose anyway, what we need are guys already proven. Those guys, unfortunately, for the most part are already paid market value, which we clearly can't afford.
    I believe Alderson has more of a say than a lot of us believe. If you take him at his word (I get why people don't), he was the one who pushed for a higher payroll threshold this past offseason. Now I understand his language has changed but I do think he'll be looking for talent in the offseason and the Mets have pieces to trade depending on who is targeted.

    That's not completely true either. A player like Eugenio Saurez is a guy they can target who doesn't cost a lot of money and can be a solid addition at 3rd base. I understand he will cost multiple prospects but not every upgrade in talent comes with huge monetary commitments.

    Like I said they may not exercise every option or arbitration eligible player. Sure, their ways of improvement are limited by essentially a cap but its not like Thor, Rosario, deGrom are their only valuable assets.
    Last edited by metswon69; 09-11-2017 at 03:19 AM.

  13. #388
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    I'm not opposed to letting young guys with talent fill holes on the team when they have shown some ability to handle the majors. Nimmo and Lagares have always seemed like logical choices to man CF to me because both are producing and can handle the job defensively.

    Flores is a guy who, before his freak injury, was hitting the ball well. He deserves a chance to play 2nd base for this team close to full time. His bat plays well there and he has handled the job reasonably well defensively.

    Smith and Rosario are young and very talented. Rosario will obviously play SS but even Smith should get the nod if he proves he can handle major league pitching.

    So I'm not at all unrealistic about where the team can and should upgrade. That's 3 key positions they can basically address internally and IMO, address well.

    But 3rd base and C and a spot in the starting rotation are glaring black holes on this team. Plawecki, other than a brief "hot streak" has done nothing to make me confident in his abilities on the major league level. Darno, via injury and performance, has been a complete disappointment.

    These are spots that a team serious about contending upgrades. Period.
    Last edited by GottaBelieve; 09-11-2017 at 10:35 AM.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  14. #389
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    Plawecki has a strikeout rate of 10.7% this year and 13.8% in AAA, I was shocked when I saw this. Plus with his ISO being .164 in the majors, it tells me that he isn't hitting weak *** crap with his contact.

    I would love for him to get a legitimate shot to become an option at catcher.


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  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Plawecki has a strikeout rate of 10.7% this year and 13.8% in AAA, I was shocked when I saw this. Plus with his ISO being .164 in the majors, it tells me that he isn't hitting weak *** crap with his contact.

    I would love for him to get a legitimate shot to become an option at catcher.
    As of right now he should be the starting catcher next year. Let's hope those numbers are sustainable.

    Third Base and Pitching is where I hope the limited amount of money we have is focused.


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