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  1. #586
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    Oct 2006
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    And my mistake, Lucroy has no option. He is an unrestricted FA.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  2. #587
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
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    27,668
    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    On what planet are Darno and Plawecki league average? Where's the evidence they are better than Avila or Lucroy or even Ianetta?
    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...ter=&players=0

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...739&position=C

    D'Arnaud was just above league average for the catchers spot in terms of wRC+. Plawecki's wRC+ was better but it was a small sample size. You're not going to find a ton of catchers who really put up big offensive numbers. A guy like Avila went 5 years in between good seasons.

    I'm fine with the catcher's position. It's other areas that are more pressing needs.

  3. #588
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Snow Hill NC
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    23,921
    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    On what planet are Darno and Plawecki league average? Where's the evidence they are better than Avila or Lucroy or even Ianetta?
    *sigh*

    I posted this before, posting again.

    So, I'm (and probably most of you, too) already thinking about what the team will do to improve for 2018.
    *
    One thing that ALWAYS gets brought up is the Catcher's position.
    *
    So, here's my personal analysis, take it like you want.
    *
    League average catcher production (straight from ESPN):
    *
    At Bats: 569
    Hits: 142
    Runs: 65
    Home Runs: 20
    RBI: 73
    Average: .249
    OBP: .319
    SLG: .413
    *
    The tandem of Plawecki and d'Arnaud have given us:
    *
    AB: 430
    H: 106
    R: 48
    HR: 19
    RBI: 67
    AVG: .247
    OBP: .304
    SLG: .440
    *
    Surprisingly, the Mets are listed as the #1 tem in catcher's defense by ESPN. That only takes into account the VASTLY flawed fielding percentage, however. But, looking at the CS rate, they are a tick below average, even with the so called *"No d" behind the plate most of the time.
    *
    I've said before, I'll say again, the vast amount of the blame for the low CS rate should be laid at the feet of a HORRIBLE job of holding runners on by the pitching staff, particularly the starters.
    *
    Looking objectively, the Mets have actually received average to above average production from the catcher's spot this year., both offensively and defensively.
    *
    Despite all the hullabaloo that "we need to bring in Weiters" or "we need to get Lucroy" or the ever popular "we need to get a better catcher (without naming said available catcher to get)" the fact of the matter is that we have no reason really to get down on the catchers we have. It's actually an area of lesser concern to me, frankly.
    I can be boring and vanilla, too! Controversy = BAD...

  4. #589
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    31,490
    They put up a disproportionate amount of their offensive numbers up in September. I believe in Darno's offensive talent, but he's made of brittle glass and his production is completely unreliable.

    Plawecki has done nothing except against September pitching in 2017. Maybe his walk rates suggest he's a better hitter now but that's a hell of a stretch to believe.

    The defensive stats are a joke. Darno is a liability with men on base and Plawecki is serviceable. These are not defensive stars.

    I can live with Darno or Plawecki. If you go into 2018 with both as your only realistic catching solutions, you're asking for the position to fall apart on you when you're supposed to be contending.

    Avila, Lucroy and Ianetta are all legitimate major league catchers who can field their position well and have produced more than these 2 - even in 2017. I doubt any of them would cost much, and you'd get far more upside with these guys than the Darno/Plawecki combo.

    You're right that the team has a bigger fish to fry at 3rd base and even in SP. This should not exclude them from bringing in a reasonably priced upgrade to the catching position. If they can't afford freaking Avila or Lucroy without not being able to upgrade 3B, they are more pathetic than I thought as an organization.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  5. #590
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Cool Ranch, NM
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    27,854
    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    If Matz, Harvey and Wheeler somehow get their **** together.

    If Familia and Latino Erik Goeddel get their **** together.

    If Smith and Rosario start being very productive players.

    If TdA and Plawecki actually do what they did in September for the season.

    If Conforto is healthy by early 2018 season.

    If Cespedes stays healthy and productive.

    If Nimmo does what he did this September.

    If they actually get off their *** and sign a couple of productive pen arms.

    If they actually sign a good starter who can give them quality innings.

    If Cabrera at third does well.

    If they actually sign a ****ing third baseman as they should.


    **** that too many ifs and hope and praying for this team to be a playoff team again next year.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The first one is a must... after that I don't think they need all those things to happen necessarily.

    Realistically though, I think Harvey needs to go to the pen and truthfully, Wheeler has never been that good. That just leaves Matz who is made of glass.

    They need to sign a starter for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  6. #591
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    Dec 2007
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    I have little confidence in TDA and Plaw, but this catcher problem is like the lowest on the totem pole of problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  7. #592
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
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    Brooklyn,NY
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    506
    Mets need a 3rd baseman , an outfielder and a reliever.
    Lets go Mets

  8. #593
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metfreek4life View Post
    Mets need a 3rd baseman , an outfielder and a reliever.
    I think we need a starter as much as anything
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  9. #594
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    36,443
    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    They put up a disproportionate amount of their offensive numbers up in September. I believe in Darno's offensive talent, but he's made of brittle glass and his production is completely unreliable.

    Plawecki has done nothing except against September pitching in 2017. Maybe his walk rates suggest he's a better hitter now but that's a hell of a stretch to believe.

    The defensive stats are a joke. Darno is a liability with men on base and Plawecki is serviceable. These are not defensive stars.

    I can live with Darno or Plawecki. If you go into 2018 with both as your only realistic catching solutions, you're asking for the position to fall apart on you when you're supposed to be contending.

    Avila, Lucroy and Ianetta are all legitimate major league catchers who can field their position well and have produced more than these 2 - even in 2017. I doubt any of them would cost much, and you'd get far more upside with these guys than the Darno/Plawecki combo.

    You're right that the team has a bigger fish to fry at 3rd base and even in SP. This should not exclude them from bringing in a reasonably priced upgrade to the catching position. If they can't afford freaking Avila or Lucroy without not being able to upgrade 3B, they are more pathetic than I thought as an organization.
    I'm with you on September numbers. But you don't think he looked different?

    That said, I remembering being awfully impressed with him in ST a few seasons back. And we know September baseball isn't much different from ST.

    Still, we saw Turner leave and become a world beater. We saw Murphy leave to become a world beater. How much would it suck for Plawecki to join that conversation?

    Let's give him one more season.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  10. #595
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    39,834
    .247/.320/.433/.753 with 19 HRs is what Plawecki and Darno did this year.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  11. #596
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    31,490
    Darno hit for a lot of power (though he also hit .226) in March/April. He also tore up September pitching and put up gawdy, skewed stats during that stretch. In June he was ok. The rest of the season he was atrocious.

    Now a full season's work is a full season's work. But let's not pretend his overall production isn't heavily skewed by what he did in September. Plus, he's made of glass and I don't know how anyone can trust him remaining healthy.

    Plawecki is a great unknown. He may have miraculously changed his batting approach to become a serious major league hitter - or maybe he also just feasted on AAA and then September pitching.

    I'll reserve my reservations about these 2. We can revisit the issue in mid 2018.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  12. #597
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn New York
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    16,299
    I still believe in the TDA/Plawecki tandem for catcher. TDA has proven to be mediocre at this point and Plawecki has at least improved somewhat, regardless of him feasting on AAA pitching. IMO we have bigger areas of need and there aren't any worthwhile people on the free agent market to go after.

    Alex Avila is probably the best but he's going to be in high demand and probably out of our budget. Lucroy has only taken steps backwards and guys like Suzuki and Flowers signed extensions.

    We need a third baseman way more than catcher. I'm fine picking up Cabrera's option and letting him play 2nd next year with a platoon of Flores/Smith at first to start the season. Upgrade later if necessary. That's a realistic way and probably more viable way of spending money this offseason rather than throwing chips on another mediocre catcher (like others said, there aren't any other catchers on the market - trade block or FA)
    Last edited by Zmaster52; 10-16-2017 at 09:38 PM.

  13. #598
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    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,256
    The more I see of him the more I would like to have CC on our team next year

  14. #599
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    Nov 2004
    Posts
    29,099
    ^Eh he isn't as much of an innings eater as I'd like. I'd rather get RA Dickey

  15. #600
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    New York
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    3,258
    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    ^Eh he isn't as much of an innings eater as I'd like. I'd rather get RA Dickey
    An RA Dickey reunion would be nice!

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