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  1. #301
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    Hell, one of the initial suspicions of all the contact between his campaign/administration and Russia were a fear that they discussed those exact sanctions.

    This new angle from Trump and his dull-witted minions is laughable and probably doesn't deserve our serious responses. It is utterly absurd to somehow shift the blame for all of this on Obama, who probably did just about everything he could. We know they gathered tons of information. We know they warned Russia repeatedly. We know they dropped some admittedly symbolic sanctions on Russia. We know they started their own cyber-attack programs to target Russia (see: "cyberbombs").

    But, even if you think Obama did "NOTHING" (directly quoting Trump's twitter), which is certifiably not true, there are a couple obvious reasons why he was timid (well, not compared to how timid Trump has been).

    First, the fear the Obama administration had about taking more aggressive steps early on was the worry that it would lead to a more all-out assault from Russia on the hadn't-happened-yet elections. They didn't want to escalate things. That's absurdly reasonable. They were worried specifically that Russia would attack the voting systems themselves leading up to and on election day.

    Secondly, the obvious fear that it would be viewed as political. FNK and his ilk know damn well they would have obliterated Obama if he did anything that looked like an effort to help Hillary. Moreover, there was a belief that doing so and generating just that reaction would be playing into Russia's hands. It's precisely what they would want. It would make Hillary look worse.


    I will say that it's hard to know exactly what Trump has done because most anything he would have done would be highly classified or covert. But considering his steadfast doubt of any of this....well...why would we believe he's done anything. Just look at anything he said about Russia at G20.
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  2. #302
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    Donald Trump's Presidency (Continued)

    Putin must have more than just golden shower videos of Donnie Smallhands.

    Maybe proof he bought a sex slave "model" to make his American wife or better yet, some Donnie and Two Cups-type of videos?
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  3. #303
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    http://thehill.com/homenews/state-wa...-panel-demands

    Trump's voter fraud commission already doing damage, just out of fear alone.

    F#^% the GOP.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    http://thehill.com/homenews/state-wa...-panel-demands

    Trump's voter fraud commission already doing damage, just out of fear alone.

    F#^% the GOP.
    Not sure if this is a bad thing or a good thing. I don't like the perception that asking for personal information is causing this to happen, but what if these are all people who are supposed to be ineligible to vote (illegal immigrants, prison record, etc.) and they are withdrawing because they don't want to get in trouble. Also, what is a 2150% increase from week to week represent? Did the state get 45 withdrawals in the current week, when the investigation was announced and only got 2 the week before? Perhaps there were a total of 40 people that shouldn't vote and now aren't going to do it. We will need more data than a week to week increase.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    Not sure if this is a bad thing or a good thing. I don't like the perception that asking for personal information is causing this to happen, but what if these are all people who are supposed to be ineligible to vote (illegal immigrants, prison record, etc.) and they are withdrawing because they don't want to get in trouble. Also, what is a 2150% increase from week to week represent? Did the state get 45 withdrawals in the current week, when the investigation was announced and only got 2 the week before? Perhaps there were a total of 40 people that shouldn't vote and now aren't going to do it. We will need more data than a week to week increase.
    What if!?!

    That's a silly way to justify this. Is there any iota of evidence to suggest that that's why people are withdrawing? This is bad, period. If you want people who shouldn't vote to not vote, this is not how you do it.

    It does sound like that the bevy of lawsuits and almost every state's noncompliance is kinda grinding this to a halt, which is good. 100s of voters pulling their registration is not good, but it's minor damage compared to all the other bull **** the right has successfully pulled off in terms of voter suppression.


    I think I'm beginning to understand why so many people on the right, especially the far right, are so zealous about flag-waving and constantly reminding everyone how patriotic they are. Maybe subconsciously, or even consciously, there's a lot weighing on their minds in regards to how much they're OK with ******** all over the very fundamentals of our constitutional republic with a representative democracy (citizens united, voter suppression, gerrymandering, voter purges, authoritarianism, religious fundamentalism, and just a general desire to leave so many people in this very country they're so proud of behind).

    I don't really like when I start to sound like this to be honest, but especially considering all the fervent defending of the Trump administration's behavior, I'm becoming convinced that a very large portion of the right sees undermining the American federal democracy as a core mission (side note: it is Bannon's expressed mission). Just look at how anyone on the right responds to this Trump Jr. stuff. It will say all that needs to be said.
    Last edited by ManRam; 07-11-2017 at 12:20 PM.
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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    What if!?!

    That's a silly way to justify this. Is there any iota of evidence to suggest that that's why people are withdrawing? This is bad, period. If you want people who shouldn't vote to not vote, this is not how you do it.

    It does sound like that the bevy of lawsuits and almost every state's noncompliance is kinda grinding this to a halt, which is good. 100s of voters pulling their registration is not good, but it's minor damage compared to all the other bull **** the right has successfully pulled off in terms of voter suppression.


    I think I'm beginning to understand why so many people on the right, especially the far right, are so zealous about flag-waving and constantly reminding everyone how patriotic they are. Maybe subconsciously, or even consciously, there's a lot weighing on their minds in regards to how much they're OK with ******** all over the very fundamentals of our constitutional republic with a representative democracy (citizens united, voter suppression, gerrymandering, voter purges, authoritarianism, religious fundamentalism, and just a general desire to leave so many people in this very country they're so proud of behind).

    I don't really like when I start to sound like this to be honest, but especially considering all the fervent defending of the Trump administration's behavior, I'm becoming convinced that a very large portion of the right sees undermining the American federal democracy as a core mission (side note: it is Bannon's expressed mission). Just look at how anyone on the right responds to this Trump Jr. stuff. It will say all that needs to be said.
    This is a great post, I agree 100% with what you said. It is a shame that we sound so partisan, but it is an illusion. The right has become a sick, demented cult. It is them who have become insane. "Reality has a liberal bias" has never been more relevant. Reality of course has no actual bias, but when one side becomes so far detached from it, it appears as if it does have one.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    your reaching is outstanding.
    show me in that post that you quoted where I specifically said "it was not Russia
    read carefully, I specifically said.. "how do we know since the FBI didn't get to see the server".
    I did not say it was not Russia, I questioned how do we know it was Russia. isn't this what one has called reading comprehension.
    like you always do, you reach to get the conclusion that you want. you should be smarter than that.
    it should be alarming that the DNC would not let the FBI see the server that they said was hacked. how is that not big news? if the Republican side had done this anyone on the left and you people here would be freaking out and asking what are they hiding. DNC does it and you want to act more like Leslie Nielsen standing in front of a raging fire saying nothing to see here.
    It's not a lack of reading comprehension, it's you thinking you're smart and trying to imply something without saying. Fortunately for all of us you're not smart and we see right through it.

    But since you want to cowardly hide behind questions because you know you've been caught being a blatant hypocrite, answer directly:

    Do you think Russia hacked the DNC?

    None of this 'how do we know' crap.

    Because you're still a hypocrite. How can you be mad at Obama not punishing or stopping Russia when you don't know if it was Russia or not

    Sorry, you've been caught. You've stubbornly tried to stay on the "Russia didn't do the hacks" train but jumped at the chance to criticize Obama and now you've been caught red-handed being a hypocrite. Both can't be true, so which is it?

  8. #308
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    Donald Trump's Presidency (Continued)

    Just imagine what info, emails and other investigative findings that are currently being held in private by Mueller IF this is the type of material being released by Donnie Trump JR?
    Last edited by Timmmahhh; 07-11-2017 at 01:25 PM.
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  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    This is a great post, I agree 100% with what you said. It is a shame that we sound so partisan, but it is an illusion. The right has become a sick, demented cult. It is them who have become insane. "Reality has a liberal bias" has never been more relevant. Reality of course has no actual bias, but when one side becomes so far detached from it, it appears as if it does have one.
    You guys need to get a room together and wring your hands on all these plots to bad mouth Republicans. If you had one non-partisan thought in your head, you'd realize that people don't just drop off the voter rolls and that people who are illegally registered to vote cannot be subject to voter suppression, because they are "illegally" registering to vote. Of course as long as states decide not to comply with a federal investigation, they can go and register in those states multiple times to make up for it.

  10. #310
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    You are all having a field day with this meeting with Junior and that's great. Enjoy yourselves. It still doesn't change the basic fact that there was no collusion with Russia.

    What do we know. 1) One attorney who knew Jr e-mailed him and said that a Russian attorney that he knew had incriminating facts on Hillary Clinton's collusion with Russia that might help his father's campaign and would he be interested. 2) Jr responded that if the information were true, he'd love it and he copied the two campaign advisors about it. These are the only indisputable facts.

    What do we believe to be true based on statements made:
    1) Junior and two advisors meet with a female attorney with whom they had no relationship. 2) The attorney says that she has no dealings with the Russian government, the Russian government says it has no dealings with the attorney. 3) Jr says that Kushner leaves after seven minutes and Mannafort spend the entire meeting on his phone. The attorney independently confirmed that Kushner left right after the meeting started and Mannafort was distracted by his phone the whole time.

    What other statements were made:
    1) It was obvious that the meeting was arranged under false pretenses, because the attorney did not offer up any information on the Clinton collusion with Russia or held back on it, because she claims to have discussed the Russian sanctions being reduced. There is also this story about Russian adoptions by US citizens. From these statements, we have to draw our own inferences. Is the adoptions a patent lie or do the sanctions have anything to do with causing a restriction on adoptions? Let's assume the adoption discussion is a lie, what would be the reason to discuss the sanctions? Did the attorney actually have dirt on Hillary Clinton colluding with high level Russian officials for the Uranium One deal and was there a deal being offered by Russia to tell the truth about Clinton in exchange for the dropping of the sanctions, but that the deal never got that far, because Jr felt that the attorney was yanking his chain? Was the Trump campaign being felt out by the Russians by a small time attorney with the thought that a future meeting could occur with a high ranking government official, but it never got there?

    In any case, it is hard to argue that Jr did anything illegal in taking the meeting to find out information , if possible.It might be distasteful, but not illegal.

    Obviously, this can prolong the investigation, but the real questioning should be performed on Jr's acquaintance about the purpose of the meeting. Was there any undisclosed facts about Hillary Clinton's collusion with the Russians? Was there a high level Russian source? Was it all a hoax being played on Jr or are there facts that need to be investigated?

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyi View Post
    You are all having a field day with this meetings with Junior and that's great. Enjoy yourselves. It still doesn't change the basic fact that there was no collusion with Russia.
    How are you certain about this?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there still an ongoing & active independent investigation looking into to this very matter?
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  12. #312
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    I am curious: almost a half a year into it, what would you say are the signature items (legislation/concrete actions) that this administration -- in concert with a Republican controlled Senate and House -- has actually accomplished of its own accord?

    1. A new justice on the Supreme Court.
    Last edited by Crovash; 07-11-2017 at 04:24 PM.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Let's focus on the positives.

    I am curious: almost a half a year into it, what would you say are the long-lasting, signature items (legislation/concrete actions) that this administration -- in concert with a Republican controlled Senate and House -- has actually accomplished of its own accord? So something like the economy does not count, at least not yet, unless you can point to a specific item.

    1. A new justice on the Supreme Court.

    Add yours.
    ****!?! You call that a positive?!?

    It would've been impossible for him to fail considering the nuclear option. And it was a vacancy that was only there because it was stolen.
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  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    ****!?! You call that a positive?!?
    Not at all, but by the same token some might.

    Note: I amended my original request to take out the word positive. I am simply looking for actual things they've accomplished -- done, really made happen.

    Withdrawing from the Paris Accord is an action (whether positive or negative -- I have my opinion; we all do, I'm sure), but at least they did it.

    Look, we are almost 200 days into a Republican dominated Federal Government, and other than a bunch of potential scandals, some failed health care legislation, a ludicrous budget proposal, and a couple of dubious immigration dictates -- I've heard little about what has been done. I want to know what they've made theirs -- what the signature of this Republican administration?
    Last edited by Crovash; 07-11-2017 at 04:47 PM.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Not at all, but by the same token some might.

    Note: I amended my original request to take out the word positive. I am simply looking for actual things they've accomplished -- done, really made happen.

    Withdrawing from the Paris Accord is an action (whether positive or negative -- I have my opinion; we all do, I'm sure), but at least they did it.

    Look, we are almost 200 days into it, and other than countless puerile tweets, potential scandals, failed legislation, a ludicrous budget, and a couple of dubious legal immigration things -- I've heard little about what has been done. I want to know what they've made theirs -- what the signature of this administration?
    I actually had typed and ready to go:

    1. A new justice on the Supreme Court.
    2. Withdrawing us from the Paris Accord
    and then I actually read all of your post and got caught up on "positive". So yeah, I think we agree that those are the two clear lasting and impacting things he has done so far.

    I think you've heard little because there has been little done. If I had to take a stab at his 5 most championed campaign promises:

    Repeal and Replace? Nope
    The wall? Nope
    Locking Hillary up? Immediately dropped
    TPP? Alright! There's something!
    Travel ban? He's tried, and failed.

    Hey, at least he hasn't YET failed his promise of not cutting medicaid and social security!

    It's still early on. We haven't even had a budget passed yet. I'm not in any mood to cut him any slack because of how zealous he was ("we'll do this and this and that within the first 3 months!") but we're still only in the infancy of his presidency.
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