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  1. #16
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    Also, if you don't like my trade proposals, you can always not comment on it. I'll converse with anyone in here, but I really don't care at all to chat with you. Just to clear the air so there's no confusion.
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 05-12-2017 at 12:16 AM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Firstly, you said he'd cost more because of his "hot start" which has him at an OPS exactly .037 points higher than his career.

    I simply, sarcastically pointing out that that's not true.
    I said we need to consider his hot start, I didn't say definitively that he would cost more.
    If it was sarcasm, it didn't come though very well, (which is very normal for sarcasm) since it's a lot harder to pick up sarcasm though text than it is through verbal communication.
    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Loosely translated: "Busted! You said 'less' when it's actually like 0.6% more!"

    Guess you caught me, man. But, TBH, I've never seen someone so excited about a negligible increase in walk rate or a .319 OBP.

    Of course, as I stated when I said "since the first week, his numbers have normalized", I was referring to his walk and k-rates since the league adjusted to him.

    Over the last 30 days he has a 20.2% k-rate (in line with his career) and a 7.3% bb-rate (worse than his career).

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx...-05-10&season=




    Because they did! Just last trade deadline! You don't think the Brewers would think that's a fair trade, yet, you personally don't think a straight swap would be fair to the Dodgers! How can you make both arguments?
    30 days is still a relatively small sample size, and even so, with the numbers you posted, his walk and k % are still better than they were last year.

    If they thought Puig and McCarthy plus a couple of prospects was agreeable, then he would have been traded last deadline. Right, obviously they didn't think that was agreeable enough, or Braun would be a dodger.

    I didn't say "a straight swap would be fair for the dodgers," I said
    but is that the best deal for LA or MIL because they have to be enticed by whatever offer the team makes, and if Puig is just a league average hitter with two years of control left, then they may not feel like that's enough of a return
    So no, I didn't say that a straight swap would be unfair for the dodgers. I'm pretty clearly implying that it would be unfair for the BREWERS.
    The other point, was considering that as you've pointed out "puig sure is sucking" maybe they no longer feel the originally discussed(but not agreed to deal) is no longer fair or good enough, their opinion of Puig as a player, or the rumored prospects could have soured. Hell for all we know the prospects that were offered were DeJong and DeLeon who are no longer in the system.
    Which is why I asked, WHAT ELSE WOULD IT COST?

    ***As a side note, I would appreciate it if you argued against the points I make rather than the points you seem to want me to make.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Also, if you don't like my trade proposals, you can always not comment on it. I'll converse with anyone in here, but I really don't care at all to chat with you. Just to clear the air so there's no confusion.
    Just to be clear, I'm sorry for having the AUDACITY to disagree with you.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    Just to be clear, I'm sorry for having the AUDACITY to disagree with you.
    Disagreement is good. You only want to make circlular arguments and act as though the statistics you use (DRS - give me a friggin break) are the only things that matter.

    I have no interest in debating with you. We've had these conversations a million times before. You disagree, duly noted. You don't need to reply with the same old **** every time I post something. You're only doing it to start a fight as we've clearly never seen eye to eye on this, and we clearly never will.
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 05-12-2017 at 11:03 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    I said we need to consider his hot start, I didn't say definitively that he would cost more.
    And I pointed out that .037 OPS points over his career numbers doesn't exactly equate to a hot start.

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    If it was sarcasm, it didn't come though very well, (which is very normal for sarcasm) since it's a lot harder to pick up sarcasm though text than it is through verbal communication.
    Are you being serious right now? 'Half our team for .037 OPS points' capped with a faceplam, didn't play very well?

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    30 days is still a relatively small sample size, and even so, with the numbers you posted, his walk and k % are still better than they were last year.
    Are you serious? 30 days is too small a sample size, but if you add the 10 days of his hot start, that tells the better picture? His walk and k rates are currently still better than his career because he almost never struck out in the first week of the season. Since after the first 10 days, he's been worse than his career.

    2017: .232/.308/.406 .714 OPS
    31 Days: .231/.281/.327 .608 OPS

    2017: 19.6% k rate, 9.1% bb rate
    31 Day: 21.1% k rate, 7.0% bb rate

    So even considering his hot start, he's been absolutely terrible this season as reflected in his -5.5 oWAR.


    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    If they thought Puig and McCarthy plus a couple of prospects was agreeable, then he would have been traded last deadline. Right, obviously they didn't think that was agreeable enough, or Braun would be a dodger.
    All indications were that the Dodgers backed out of that deal, not the Brewers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    I didn't say "a straight swap would be fair for the dodgers," I said
    So no, I didn't say that a straight swap would be unfair for the dodgers. I'm pretty clearly implying that it would be unfair for the BREWERS.
    To channel you for a second, if you thought you were clearly implying anything of the sort, it doesn't come off well when you make statements about Braun's DRS being soooooo bad and use that to imply that we need Puig more than we need him. Don't deny that that's what you were implying.

    It simply sounds like you're throwing up barriers to tell people they shouldn't want to trade Yasiel Puig, but why do you care so much what other people want to do?

    You don't want to trade him. I do. I'm not convincing you, you're not convincing me. Why do you still feel the need to argue about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    The other point, was considering that as you've pointed out "puig sure is sucking" maybe they no longer feel the originally discussed(but not agreed to deal) is no longer fair or good enough, their opinion of Puig as a player, or the rumored prospects could have soured. Hell for all we know the prospects that were offered were DeJong and DeLeon who are no longer in the system.
    Which is why I asked, WHAT ELSE WOULD IT COST?
    Well, it most likely was not DeLeon considering the rumors were low level specs. BTW, as solid of a spec as DeJong was, he's not a make or break factor in that deal.

    Further, all you're attempting to do is muddy the waters with the unknown. How could we possibly know what either side is thinking? I personally would start with the same rumored package, but that's clearly not enough to satisfy your distaste for this suggestion.

    You disagree. Now move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    ***As a side note, I would appreciate it if you argued against the points I make rather than the points you seem to want me to make.

    Isn't that rich, coming from you. You could write a novel about taking **** out of context for the benefit of your arguments.
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 05-12-2017 at 11:04 AM.

  6. #21
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    Sooo what would it take to get braun?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pcs Papa View Post
    Sooo what would it take to get braun?
    Back to the conversation at hand - lol

    I think we start with the same rumored package from last trade deadline. Puig plus a big league starter, possibly McCarthy (the name rumored last year), or maybe Ryu, and a low level, low floor/high potential type of minor leaguer or two.
    "There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

    - Carl Sagan


  8. #23
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    Looks like Justin turner just pulled his hamstring

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

    Your baby can't do this

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    And I pointed out that .037 OPS points over his career numbers doesn't exactly equate to a hot start.



    Are you being serious right now? 'Half our team for .037 OPS points' capped with a faceplam, didn't play very well?



    Are you serious? 30 days is too small a sample size, but if you add the 10 days of his hot start, that tells the better picture? His walk and k rates are currently still better than his career because he almost never struck out in the first week of the season. Since after the first 10 days, he's been worse than his career.

    2017: .232/.308/.406 .714 OPS
    31 Days: .231/.281/.327 .608 OPS

    2017: 19.6% k rate, 9.1% bb rate
    31 Day: 21.1% k rate, 7.0% bb rate

    So even considering his hot start, he's been absolutely terrible this season as reflected in his -5.5 oWAR.




    All indications were that the Dodgers backed out of that deal, not the Brewers.



    To channel you for a second, if you thought you were clearly implying anything of the sort, it doesn't come off well when you make statements about Braun's DRS being soooooo bad and use that to imply that we need Puig more than we need him. Don't deny that that's what you were implying.

    It simply sounds like you're throwing up barriers to tell people they shouldn't want to trade Yasiel Puig, but why do you care so much what other people want to do?

    You don't want to trade him. I do. I'm not convincing you, you're not convincing me. Why do you still feel the need to argue about it?



    Well, it most likely was not DeLeon considering the rumors were low level specs. BTW, as solid of a spec as DeJong was, he's not a make or break factor in that deal.

    Further, all you're attempting to do is muddy the waters with the unknown.
    How could we possibly know what either side is thinking? I personally would start with the same rumored package, but that's clearly not enough to satisfy your distaste for this suggestion.

    You disagree. Now move on.




    Isn't that rich, coming from you. You could write a novel about taking **** out of context for the benefit of your arguments.
    This is a guy who's been in the league for 10 years, we shouldn't be comparing what he did now to what he averaged back when he was 24 and leading the league in slugging, his .948 ops is a pretty hot start compared to his last 3 years (2014-2016) where his average OPS was .844 (which is still good) but 100 points lower than what he's currently at.
    Should we use Adrian Gonzalez career OPS as a gauge of what to expect from him going forward, or should we try to use/emphisize the most recent sample size. The same goes for Ryan Bruan or Pujols or anyone really. You want to use the most recent years when comparing a players season to what they did in the past.


    As far as Puig's and his K and BB rates are concerned, using his career average means we have to include his first two (near MVP) seasons into the mix, which drastically alters his career numbers, and you in particular have never been shy to point out that those first two season aren't his real talent level, and that he's closer to the last two seasons in terms of talent.
    Hell isn't that why you want to trade him? Because you think his last two season are who he really is, and the team should upgrade while they have the chance?
    So what is he, a...
    .287/.361/.472 132 OPS+ hitter (his first four years)
    or a...
    .260/.323/.425 105 OPS+ hitter (just the last two years)
    Because I thought you wanted to get rid of him because you think he's closer to the latter. And if that's true, we should compare what he's done recently to the last two years.
    Another reason to compare this season to the last two years is because we want to see how his process has changed this season compared to his last two meh years, to see if he can return to being that great hitter he was when he first made it to the majors.

    I hadn't seen that, but I'll take your word for it, perhaps the brewers were asking for to much on the prospect front.

    No, I'm asking what it will cost besides Yasiel Puig. That's it, there's nothing else to it.
    It's not that I'm unwilling to trade him, I just think people should be reasonable with what they expect the team can get back for Puig.

    No, I'm asking what the package would be so I can evaluate the idea, your bringing up a 9 month old trade as if it's still good enough to get the deal done, if that were true they would have made the trade in the off season. Or they would have made that trade now. You don't think they've had those talks about those same players since then? Clearly some opinion has changed regarding these rumored players on one side or another or both.
    The prospects I used were just an example. But maybe the prospects that were suggested was someone who looked good last season but has struggled since the start of this season, such as Josh Sborz, or maybe it's someone who has done much better than expected and the dodgers are now unwilling to trade, such as Will Smith, or a guy that's not in the organization anymore like DeLeon, IDK, but something has clearly changed, and it hasn't been Puig or Braun.
    Last edited by ciaban; 05-19-2017 at 10:20 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Disagreement is good. You only want to make circlular arguments and act as though the statistics you use (DRS - give me a friggin break) are the only things that matter.

    I have no interest in debating with you. We've had these conversations a million times before. You disagree, duly noted. You don't need to reply with the same old **** every time I post something. You're only doing it to start a fight as we've clearly never seen eye to eye on this, and we clearly never will.
    The fact that you posted this, and then immediately went on to argue points I made make this statement appear incredulous.
    Last edited by ciaban; 05-19-2017 at 10:18 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    Back to the conversation at hand - lol

    I think we start with the same rumored package from last trade deadline. Puig plus a big league starter, possibly McCarthy (the name rumored last year), or maybe Ryu, and a low level, low floor/high potential type of minor leaguer or two.
    But here's a question, would a team that's currently in first place trade their best hitter for a struggling OF an injury prone starter and some low level prospects that wont be able to help them this year? That's also waiving a white flag pretty early in the year, while in first place.
    Because until the brewers fall out of contention (totally possible) they're not going to trade the face of their franchise for

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    The fact that you posted this, and then immediately went on to argue points I made make this statement appear incredulous.
    You should stop using words that you don't know how to use properly.

    Also, the tactics you use to keep these things going are pretty damn funny.
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 05-20-2017 at 01:30 AM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    This is a guy who's been in the league for 10 years, we shouldn't be comparing what he did now to what he averaged back when he was 24 and leading the league in slugging, his .948 ops is a pretty hot start compared to his last 3 years (2014-2016) where his average OPS was .844 (which is still good) but 100 points lower than what he's currently at.
    Should we use Adrian Gonzalez career OPS as a gauge of what to expect from him going forward, or should we try to use/emphisize the most recent sample size. The same goes for Ryan Bruan or Pujols or anyone really. You want to use the most recent years when comparing a players season to what they did in the past.


    As far as Puig's and his K and BB rates are concerned, using his career average means we have to include his first two (near MVP) seasons into the mix, which drastically alters his career numbers, and you in particular have never been shy to point out that those first two season aren't his real talent level, and that he's closer to the last two seasons in terms of talent.
    Hell isn't that why you want to trade him? Because you think his last two season are who he really is, and the team should upgrade while they have the chance?
    So what is he, a...
    .287/.361/.472 132 OPS+ hitter (his first four years)
    or a...
    .260/.323/.425 105 OPS+ hitter (just the last two years)
    Because I thought you wanted to get rid of him because you think he's closer to the latter. And if that's true, we should compare what he's done recently to the last two years.
    Another reason to compare this season to the last two years is because we want to see how his process has changed this season compared to his last two meh years, to see if he can return to being that great hitter he was when he first made it to the majors.

    I hadn't seen that, but I'll take your word for it, perhaps the brewers were asking for to much on the prospect front.

    No, I'm asking what it will cost besides Yasiel Puig. That's it, there's nothing else to it.
    It's not that I'm unwilling to trade him, I just think people should be reasonable with what they expect the team can get back for Puig.

    No, I'm asking what the package would be so I can evaluate the idea, your bringing up a 9 month old trade as if it's still good enough to get the deal done, if that were true they would have made the trade in the off season. Or they would have made that trade now. You don't think they've had those talks about those same players since then? Clearly some opinion has changed regarding these rumored players on one side or another or both.
    The prospects I used were just an example. But maybe the prospects that were suggested was someone who looked good last season but has struggled since the start of this season, such as Josh Sborz, or maybe it's someone who has done much better than expected and the dodgers are now unwilling to trade, such as Will Smith, or a guy that's not in the organization anymore like DeLeon, IDK, but something has clearly changed, and it hasn't been Puig or Braun.
    I've learned that it really doesn't matter what I say, or how many ways I tear your arguments apart, you're just going to keep flinging **** at the wall and hoping some sticks.

    Again, you disagree with me on Puig, we'll never find middle ground. I don't give a ****. Move on.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyIsMyHero View Post
    You should stop using words that you don't know how to use properly.

    Also, the tactics you use to keep these things going are pretty damn funny.
    Incredulous means hard to believe. Unless I misused a different word?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    Incredulous means hard to believe. Unless I misused a different word?
    Look, that was an intentional dick move on my part, but since I opened it up, I'll explain.

    Incredulous doesn't mean "hard to believe", incredible does. Incredulous describes peoples' reactions to something that may be hard to believe.

    For example, from what you wrote, YOU would've been incredulous (skeptical) regarding my statement. My statement cannot itself be incredulous unless it was describing my own skepticism of something else which I don't believe was your intention.
    Last edited by GibbyIsMyHero; 05-20-2017 at 12:47 PM.

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