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  1. #1906
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    The anti-Cano crowd are wrong and can't see it and it is sad. They think they know business, but they know crap about business. No company weakens itself and diminishes its product over its pride by allowing its best resource to walk away.

    As for Castro, if Cano was here and we had Castro (and why not), Castro would be playing 3B and we would have saved $65 million on Headley.

    As for the Miggy comparison, Cano was younger, his contract was shorter and he was not only a HOF player, but a HOF athlete, as well. He was in incredible shape and is likely to be in incredible shape (Intestinal parasite notwithstanding) for a lot longer than Miggy could ever be. Miggy can't even touch his toes.

    Also, Cano was hands down the best player at his position with the best arm. There are only 8 positions on the field and the Yankees gave up on the person who was the best in all of baseball at one of them. Should the Dodgers have given up on Kershaw when he hit free agency? Did the Angels give up on Mike Trout? Should Colorado give up on Arenado when it is his turn? Should the Astros give up on Correa, when its his time? Plus, once these teams give up on those players should they spend the money they saved by giving it to some injury prone punk who had one good season and by paying him double what he's worth and 50% more than the next highest team was willing to do?

  2. #1907
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHawk-181 View Post
    My evaluation was based on a clear understanding of the aging curves of players, took into account the inflation of free-agent pricing in the modern market for baseball players, acknowledged that simple payroll discussions are an oversimplification of the money-side of the equation, and recognized that such a thing as an opportunity cost exists when securing generational talents, a fact reflected in every major deal in the last two decades of baseball.

    Yours complains that Cano is a "traitor," he is never going to the post-season again, and that he is too rich or something, while claiming that Starlin Castro is just as good and even better than Cano this season.

    And yet I am the "fan" who cannot see the way baseball actually works.

    Nothing in your rant managed to address the actual evalution I offered.

    You claim that Castro has been just as good as Cano.

    That is patently false; Cano's 2017 has been as good as Castro's 2016 & 2017 combined.





    Decline?

    Cano had one down year, two All-Star caliber seasons, and this season is another solid +3 win campaign.

    Hell of a decline.


    Thr ignorance shown here is immense.

    1) Cano has played an average of 158 Games & 685 PAs a season through his first three-years in Seattle. Yankee second-basemen as a group averged just 42 PAs more a year over that same period. The comparison is apt and if anything in favor of the NYY squad. Normalized to 600 PAs makes it worse.

    2) Starlin Castro is not "as good number wise as robbie." His 2016 campaign was barely above-replacement level (1.1 fWAR) and this season he has failed to stay on the field turning what was the best offensive run of his career into just an "ok" 2 fWAR season. And I may just be a blind "fan" but I doubt a man with a career 0.322 BAbip is going to sustatin a number 40-points higher beyond this streak.

    Not really interested in parsing through the rest of that rant to reinterpret it into real points, there were really none beyond "traitors sux!" and "prospects will always be great!"

    One question though: If Starlin Castro is just as good as Robbie why did one secure a $240MM contract while the other was shipped out of town for a single year rental of Adam Warren?
    Ignorance... try Your blind.. this year, Starlin's WAR (yuck) is almost the same.. less than 1 different.. and probably would be better had he not gotten hurt.. Robbies in decline.. year 4... and his numbers are clearly in decline from his base.. So call it what you want.. but the Yanks can clearly claim his best years... and Seattle can claim to have paid him for them.. Yes, Starlin was not on the same page last year.. but he was also paid $17 million less.. and this year, his numbers are pretty damn close.. and paid $15 million less. And most of the gap getting closed was Robbies numbers coming DOWN.. Welcome to getting Old Robbie.. We all get there (unless we die young...which is much worse)... Is .8 war worth $15 million? Not to mention.. I barely heard his name mentioned all season.. Seattle is such a media hotbead.. I just don't think Robbie helped himself.. all for Greed.. He wouldn't be the first.. he won't be the last.. all for a few more millions that he'll should never be able to spend in his lifetime.. (unless he gets stupid)
    My 3 Favorite teams...
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  3. #1908
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    Man can't except a total beat down defeat. Lol, sad.

  4. #1909
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCSownsU View Post
    Man can't accept a total beat down defeat. Lol, sad.
    Fixed

  5. #1910
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    Ignorance... try Your blind.. this year, Starlin's WAR (yuck) is almost the same.. less than 1 different.. and probably would be better had he not gotten hurt..
    Every single franchise in baseball employs an advanced analytics department, each team is dumping millions of dollars into advanced stat research and tools, and we have heard from numerous GMs that there are in house versions of WAR at numerous places. Time to get over your fear of math and accept it.

    Also, a full win differential between two players is a pretty solid difference.

    Pretty solid difference in the standings too.

    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    Robbies in decline.. year 4... and his numbers are clearly in decline from his base..
    Stop using words and phrases you clearly do not understand.

    Cano (w/NYY): 3.7 fWAR/600 PA
    Cano (w/SEA): 3.7 fWAR/600 PA

    Cano (thru-2016) = 3.7 fWAR/600 PA
    Cano (pace-2017) = 3.1 fWAR/600 PA

    Cano's peak performance years were 2010-2014; unsurprisingly that would be the age 27-31 seasons, as I pointed out beforehand, those tend to be the best of a player's career.

    Basically, Robinson Cano has "declined" from a perennial MVP-caliber level player to simply a perennial All-Star caliber player.

    While Starlin Castro struggles to put up "average every day starter" numbers which would be around 2-2.5 WAR.

    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    Is .8 war worth $15 million?
    In the current market 1 Win costs roughly $8MM on the open market.

    This season Robbie has been worth $8MM more than Castro.

    Last season Robbie was worth $39MM more than Castro.

    Quote Originally Posted by bfrap View Post
    Not to mention.. I barely heard his name mentioned all season.. Seattle is such a media hotbead.. I just don't think Robbie helped himself.. all for Greed.. He wouldn't be the first.. he won't be the last.. all for a few more millions that he'll should never be able to spend in his lifetime.. (unless he gets stupid)
    Yes, because media attention matters...

    After this many years on PSD you should have picked up some sort of basic knowledge of how baseball markets work bfrap.

    Taking your arguments to their logical conclusion, you would allow every major talent the Yankees have developed walk the moment a contract takes them past 31.

    If you have not noticed, intelligent teams throughout Baseball are extending their franchise players often and early.

    Teams that fail to do so will be watching those guys play in October.
    Last edited by IceHawk-181; 09-08-2017 at 03:10 PM.
    We’re pointing out that these statistics breed false narratives, and we value the truth. This isn’t about replacing old numbers with new numbers, or attempting to dissuade anyone from enjoying the aesthetics of the game. It is simply about telling the average fan about the reality of what actually happened on the field. The “Holy Trinity” of baseball statistics fail at this most basic task, and so they are not worth deifying any longer. - Dave Cameron

  6. #1911
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    Get a room!

  7. #1912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Get a room!
    You and I..just booked are room. Galaxy motel. See you soon baby

  8. #1913
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCSownsU View Post
    You and I..just booked are room. Galaxy motel. See you soon baby
    I cab't except that




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  9. #1914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I can't accept that
    Jerk.

  10. #1915
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCSownsU View Post
    Man can't except a total beat down defeat. Lol, sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by RCSownsU View Post
    Jerk.

    Because of that?




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  11. #1916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Because of that?
    You still spelled can't wrong! On your own!

    J


    E


    R







































    K

  12. #1917
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCSownsU View Post
    You still spelled can't wrong! On your own!

    J


    E


    R







































    K
    On purpose
    To
    Make
    Fun
    Of
    Y O
    u




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  13. #1918
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    My biggest regret with Cano was that we didn't trade him at the deadline,can you imagine the haul we would have gotten for him?!!!

  14. #1919
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    Quote Originally Posted by runnermjr1296 View Post
    My biggest regret with Cano was that we didn't trade him at the deadline,can you imagine the haul we would have gotten for him?!!!
    Yeah that is by far the worst part, we'd have atleast to more pieces to our core

  15. #1920
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceHawk-181 View Post
    Every single franchise in baseball employs an advanced analytics department, each team is dumping millions of dollars into advanced stat research and tools, and we have heard from numerous GMs that there are in house versions of WAR at numerous places. Time to get over your fear of math and accept it.

    Also, a full win differential between two players is a pretty solid difference.

    Pretty solid difference in the standings too.


    Stop using words and phrases you clearly do not understand.

    Cano (w/NYY): 3.7 fWAR/600 PA
    Cano (w/SEA): 3.7 fWAR/600 PA

    Cano (thru-2016) = 3.7 fWAR/600 PA
    Cano (pace-2017) = 3.1 fWAR/600 PA

    Cano's peak performance years were 2010-2014; unsurprisingly that would be the age 27-31 seasons, as I pointed out beforehand, those tend to be the best of a player's career.

    Basically, Robinson Cano has "declined" from a perennial MVP-caliber level player to simply a perennial All-Star caliber player.

    While Starlin Castro struggles to put up "average every day starter" numbers which would be around 2-2.5 WAR.


    In the current market 1 Win costs roughly $8MM on the open market.

    This season Robbie has been worth $8MM more than Castro.

    Last season Robbie was worth $39MM more than Castro.


    Yes, because media attention matters...

    After this many years on PSD you should have picked up some sort of basic knowledge of how baseball markets work bfrap.

    Taking your arguments to their logical conclusion, you would allow every major talent the Yankees have developed walk the moment a contract takes them past 31.

    If you have not noticed, intelligent teams throughout Baseball are extending their franchise players often and early.

    Teams that fail to do so will be watching those guys play in October.
    So I don't understand... lets see.. looking at your own projected WAR numbers for Robbie.. Those look like less than HALF his normal yearly numbers... I call that MAJOR DECLINE... in only year 4 of the deal.

    Look, his baseball skills are not why the Yanks didn't go the distance.. the business side is why they didn't.. and if he's come down this far in only year 4.. where will he be in year 7? Not to mention, Castro's days are probably numbered with Torres banging on the door. So what if the Yanks lose out on years 1-3.. 4 is a push and 5-10 are still to be determined. If his decline graph holds.. years 7-10 are going to suck and badly and 5&6 are not going to be worth what Seattle is paying.. (heck.. year 4 is only borderline on that)

    so, on a baseball side.. yes the Yanks have lost to this point.. on the business side, the future is making this non-deal going forward from here to be a very smart move...

    The problem is... you want to take 3 years of a 10 year deal and call it.. I'm looking at the whole.. and right now.. it's already showing signs that 5 of those 10 years will be robbie making more than he's really earning by the numbers.. but the Yanks knew that the first 4-5 years he's be worth it.. the problem is, they refused to pay year 1 money in years 8-10... when it's probable that he will not be worth Stephan Drew money... Debate that all you want.. but realize.. you have to wait for 3 years before you have any arguement.. history is on my side on this argument.. will robbie be able to buck history.. very few ever can.. (PED years excepted) and rarely in middle infielders.

    So call me what you want.. you just don't want to accept the truth.. History says, Robbie WILL NOT be playing up to the level he's paid in years 6-10... and 5 will be highly debatable.. and year 4 his numbers are not a hell of a lot better than Starlin.. our current second baseman... Whose also getting paid $15 million less than Robbie is... even your own numbers show that value wise, this season Starlin is the better deal (price AND performance taken together)

    Oh, and as far as replacing headley.. I seem to remember, Head was here first.. so no, Starlin would never have replaced Headley. It's questionable even doubtful that if robbie was here, that Starlin would have even been acquired..

    so, like it or lump it... Yes, the Yanks missed out in years 1-3.. 4 is looking like the Yanks are already getting he better end of the deal.. and Torres is expected to very possibly move into 2nd in the next year or two.. but by then.. Robbie may only be but average ball player with the mega-star contract.. and that will be when the Yanks are clearly the winners of this non-deal... give it up.. the numbers are already showing what many already know.. the latter half of that contract is going to be ugly for Seattle.. yes.. you end up paying for earlier success.. in this case though.. Seattle is paying the bill for his yankees success.. sounds to me like this may turn out much like the Yanks expected.. Year 1-5 acceptable, Robbie will be worth the big deal.. years 6 & 7.. overpay, the price of doing business... years 8-10.. not going there.. Seattle went there..

    You keep beating on this.. but you forget.. YOU HAVE TO INCLUDE YEARS 5-10.. and if his downward trend continues on the current pace.. years 6-10 he will not earn anything close to what seattle will be paying.. Heck.. years 8-10 are already starting to look like seattle will be paying HOF prices for MLB minimum production.. That is when I'll be laughing (as will the NY Yankees).. You are arguing this as a fan.. the yanks made the decision as a business.. they can't afford to be a fan.
    My 3 Favorite teams...
    1. The NY Yankees
    2. The Colorado Rockies
    3. Whoever is playing the Red Sox tonight!

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