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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    He didn't even leave the cupboards bare. He signed Vlad and kept Alford, Tellez SRF and several others. Only a few of the current top prospects were brought in after AA. he held onto the young standout mlb talent as well.
    Exactly, to me it seems he traded a bunch of fringe mlb talent, yet people starting by shapiro believe he emptied the farm system

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazsub3 View Post
    Exactly, to me it seems he traded a bunch of fringe mlb talent, yet people starting by shapiro believe he emptied the farm system
    Serious. Who from those 2015 trades would we want back if it meant we missed the playoffs the last 2 years? Not one Baretto, Hoffman and Norris were the real losses and none of them make us better right now.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Serious. Who from those 2015 trades would we want back if it meant we missed the playoffs the last 2 years? Not one Baretto, Hoffman and Norris were the real losses and none of them make us better right now.
    I was all for the trades that AA made but any of Norris, Boyd or Graveman would look like pretty good options with the state of our SP depth now.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazsub3 View Post
    It is a know fact that i am huge AA supporter, I have been perplexed by people blaming our start on him, saying he left the minors bare especially when he went for it in that last year he was here, well my question is which of the traded players would have contributed to the team this year, as for the life in me, i cant see anyone. And dont go back to thor, as he rebuilt the minors since that time.
    It's how it relates really. This new FO has it's hands tied in that we didn't/don't have the prospect capital to make trades to improve the team that way and nobody coming up through the minors that can offer immediate help.

    We did go from having a top 10 farm system to having a bottom 10ish system pretty quickly.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    It's how it relates really. This new FO has it's hands tied in that we didn't/don't have the prospect capital to make trades to improve the team that way and nobody coming up through the minors that can offer immediate help.

    We did go from having a top 10 farm system to having a bottom 10ish system pretty quickly.
    If I may....Wasn't that the process he talked about?

    Draft and develop talent, use them as capital (because quite frankly, the misses far outweigh the hits). Bring in proven players because Toronto can afford a top 5-10 payroll....then continue the trend on the lower levels while your major league team competes.

    I know kw I'm making it sound simple, but the Cards and Giants seem to do it just fine. Atlanta was that team in the 90's but failed to actually become a dynasty.

  6. #21
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    i didn't like the 2015 deals because i feel like it was a departure from the patient approach Anthopolous had shown all along. some people will say that it fit in with what Anthopolous stated was his goal - they are wrong. Anthopolous spoke of having a constant pipeline of young talent to build a winner, and sustain it. he never once spoke of blowing his load all at once leaving all his high end talent years away from making an impact. that is what we call having a VERY selective memory
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i didn't like the 2015 deals because i feel like it was a departure from the patient approach Anthopolous had shown all along. some people will say that it fit in with what Anthopolous stated was his goal - they are wrong. Anthopolous spoke of having a constant pipeline of young talent to build a winner, and sustain it. he never once spoke of blowing his load all at once leaving all his high end talent years away from making an impact. that is what we call having a VERY selective memory
    Yes, because blowing your load/going all in at a deadline is a "philosophy" or a "method to build a team". No GM is ever going to publicly come out and speak about this. Thats common sense. One of the earliest moves in his tenure was trading prospects to take a shot in the dark with Reyes, JJ and Buehrle.

    GMs say what they need to in public to stay politically correct. AA was a bit more honest than others but it doesn't take away from that. You're quite naive if you believe selective memory was implied. AA was always aggressive as a GM, but he believed in himself and his scouts enough to know that his farm is going to stay stacked. He used his picks well and the scouts he had in place knew exactly what they were doing.

    Every MLB team has enough picks every year to add impact players year in year out, irrelevant to how many moves are made during the season.

  8. #23
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    Even if he didn't say it, in front of him was 2 great and amazing deals. That's something you easily take.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Even if he didn't say it, in front of him was 2 great and amazing deals. That's something you easily take.
    Surely not, thats selective memory

  10. #25
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    Clearly from day one, AA's motto was eventually field all-stars in every position. He was as true to his word as can be.

    Whether he drafts/develops them, trade for them or ultimately just sign all of them doesn't really matter.

    ALCS Roster

    Revere
    Dosh
    JBau
    EE
    Martin
    Tulo
    Smoak
    Pillar
    Goins/Barney (Travis injured)

    Price
    Estrada
    Stroman
    Buerhle
    Rickey

    Hendriks
    Hawkins
    Tepera
    Loup (Cecil injured)
    Lowe
    Sanchez
    Osuna

    Thats more than close enough in my books.

    Took him 4.5 years, but he got us to ALCS and nearly WCS (if not for notoriously blind umps Kzone in Kansas series)

    Had Stupiro/Napkins spot 1 breakout player (Thames?) in 2 year's time, it's serviceable and survivable.

    But no, Upton/Salty/Smoak/Pearce/Howell... Jeez

    Misery grows and grows
    Last edited by superfio; 05-04-2017 at 09:03 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TO Rapz View Post
    Yes, because blowing your load/going all in at a deadline is a "philosophy" or a "method to build a team". No GM is ever going to publicly come out and speak about this. Thats common sense. One of the earliest moves in his tenure was trading prospects to take a shot in the dark with Reyes, JJ and Buehrle.

    GMs say what they need to in public to stay politically correct. AA was a bit more honest than others but it doesn't take away from that. You're quite naive if you believe selective memory was implied. AA was always aggressive as a GM, but he believed in himself and his scouts enough to know that his farm is going to stay stacked. He used his picks well and the scouts he had in place knew exactly what they were doing.

    Every MLB team has enough picks every year to add impact players year in year out, irrelevant to how many moves are made during the season.
    that's horseshit. he was consistent with his MO until 2015. using a surplus of prospects in 2012 when you are flush with them is not the same as emptying the tank in 2015. that's a lie you are telling yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  12. #27
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    If he was confident in the new and lower level prospects he had at that time (that need like 4 years to develop), then he's not really emptying the tank, especially if you have multiple all stars under control for 2-4 years since the timeline works out well enough.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    that's horseshit. he was consistent with his MO until 2015. using a surplus of prospects in 2012 when you are flush with them is not the same as emptying the tank in 2015. that's a lie you are telling yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    If he was confident in the new and lower level prospects he had at that time (that need like 4 years to develop), then he's not really emptying the tank, especially if you have multiple all stars under control for 2-4 years since the timeline works out well enough.
    This. Not to mention you consider what we did, "emptying the tank". I don't. We've added prospects that are better if not the same level during that same time line. Most seem to agree with my line of thinking in this thread in regards to AA. So I don't think I'd be lying to myself. On top of that, to add Price and Tulo, what big prospects did he give up? Norris and Hoffman. Okay. Lets see exactly what we gave up:

    - Daniel Norris
    - Matt Boyd
    - Miguel Castro
    - Jeff Hoffman
    - Jimmy Cordero

    Boyds a spot starter, probably an average pen arm at best. Castro's struggled mightily and looks destined to be a middle relief role. Was placed on waivers too I think. Norris is okay but has struggled at the MLB level and bounced between all 3 levels while struggling mightily with injuries. Hoffman we've yet to see but he seems legit as he's Colorado's top spec in the 1-3 range on their lists. All info can be found here:

    https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluej...als-doing.html

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    If he was confident in the new and lower level prospects he had at that time (that need like 4 years to develop), then he's not really emptying the tank, especially if you have multiple all stars under control for 2-4 years since the timeline works out well enough.
    By this logic even the organization ranked dead last for the farm should feel confident because even they will tell you they are confident they have some real keepers among their lower level prospects. Everybody feels that way.

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    By this logic even the organization ranked dead last for the farm should feel confident because even they will tell you they are confident they have some real keepers among their lower level prospects. Everybody feels that way.

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
    Agreed with this as well but I was more so agreeing with the cost of Tulo and his control in his original post. I understand that the deal went down at the deadline, but irrelevant of when it happened, I would have paid the price AA did for both Donaldson and Tulo and pulled the trigger without a problem. I don't consider that emptying the farm.

    The Price deal we really didn't give up much outside of Norris, and even at that, Norris has flopped thus far.

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