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  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    So if we do sign a MAX player and draft Fultz #1 how much money will we have left to fill out the roster?
    We have the room exception which is for I think like $3M. Then minimum salary deals. Not a huge deal though because the rotation would be filled out.

    IT/Fultz
    Bradley/Smart
    Hayward/Brown
    Crowder
    Horford/Zizic

    That's 9 rotation guys right there. You're gonna play 10 at most. The room exception you use on a front court guy and then you're all set. Unless you want to make trades.


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  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Horford sucks at rebounding? He's average at the worst for how he is played. He was getting some early, and JB shifted him outside to give more space in the lane for IT, and IT exploded. Horford is a crucial part of the D to get back, when he's 14' from the rim, he goes up court as instructed. If he was on the low block and expected to rebound, he would.

    In a way it reminds me of Cowens. When Kuberski was his PF, Cowens got lots of rebounds, and got beat to a pulp doing it. Then they got Paul Silas, he played near the basket as a #4, and Cowens moved outside more. Now Cowens was a fierce rebounder (pre cab driver days) so the comparison breaks down a bit. It should be noted Cowens had a short career - basically done at age 30.
    This can explain why he doesn't grab offensive rebounds but being used as a shooter and getting back on D doesn't affect his poor defensive rebounding. That's been a consistent problem for him going back to ATL. He's a very poor rebounder for a big man. Fortunately I'd say it's the only part of the game he's poor at which is why he's such a good overall player but that's a huge weakness for him. 100% IMO.


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  3. #543
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    Yeah well I think if Brown/Fultz step up we are going to have to make a Trade(Bradley and/or Crowdah) for a stretch big.


    Maybe use the $3m left on Zaza

    IT/Smart
    Bradley/Fultz
    Hayward/Brown
    Horford/Crowdah
    Zaza/zizic


    Or S&T Bradley Crowdah pick for Gallinari?

    IT/Rozier
    Smart/Fultz
    Hayward/Brown
    Gallinari/yabs
    Horford/zizic
    (That team looks good on paper)

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    Yeah well I think if Brown/Fultz step up we are going to have to make a Trade(Bradley and/or Crowdah) for a stretch big.


    Maybe use the $3m left on Zaza

    IT/Smart
    Bradley/Fultz
    Hayward/Brown
    Horford/Crowdah
    Zaza/zizic


    Or S&T Bradley Crowdah pick for Gallinari?

    IT/Rozier
    Smart/Fultz
    Hayward/Brown
    Gallinari/yabs
    Horford/zizic
    (That team looks good on paper)
    That's an interesting S&T idea. Issue is, DEN is in a spot to consolidate, not add multiple pieces. Also, that S&T allows us to give Gallinari a starting salary of $20,605,106. I think he can get more than that from a team like Miami. But let's say it's enough, look at what DEN's roster would be.

    Jamal Murray / Emmanuel Mudiay / Jameer Nelson
    Avery Bradley / Gary Harris / Will Barton / Malik Beasley
    Wilson Chandler / Jae Crowder
    Kenneth Farried / Juan Hernangomez / Darrell Arthur
    Nikola Jokic / Mason Plumlee

    Plus the #13 pick. All of those guys are capable of being in a rotation. In their position they're much better off just paying the money to Gallinari themselves than trading him for two lesser players. As is they probably need to swing a deal to consolidate some pieces.


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  5. #545
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    Hmmm true, well looks like they need to consolidate anyway...

    Maybe work a 3 way deal with DET

    DET getting Bradley

    Denver getting Crowdah

    Bos getting Gallinari

    (At work now so can't look at all the pieces)
    Last edited by CELTICS4LYFE; 05-31-2017 at 12:26 PM.

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    Hmmm true, well looks like they need to consolidate anyway...

    Maybe work a 3 way deal with DET

    DET getting Bradley

    Denver getting Crowdah

    Bos getting Gallinari

    (At work now so can't look at all the pieces)
    Why is detroit getting Bradley for nothing?
    "Talent sets the floor, character sets the ceiling." - Bill Belichick

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    Hmmm true, well looks like they need to consolidate anyway...

    Maybe work a 3 way deal with DET

    DET getting Bradley

    Denver getting Crowdah

    Bos getting Gallinari

    (At work now so can't look at all the pieces)
    The issue still remains though, why would DEN trade him for a worse player? They have all the depth in the world. They need guys at the top of the roster and Gallinari is better at that than Crowder.

    I like Gallinari a lot actually. If we miss out on Hayward I would pursue him as a fall-back option offering up to the max since this is really our last realistic shot at landing someone with the cap space. He's a good player, and that's the reason I don't see DEN agreeing to a S&T for a lesser player. If we miss on Hayward maybe he chooses us for chance to win but if we do get Hayward, the decision is up to Denver and I doubt they help us.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox47 View Post
    Why is detroit getting Bradley for nothing?
    I think it's just an incomplete rough draft.


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  8. #548
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    Assuming he wants to stay in Denver...

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    This can explain why he doesn't grab offensive rebounds but being used as a shooter and getting back on D doesn't affect his poor defensive rebounding. That's been a consistent problem for him going back to ATL. He's a very poor rebounder for a big man. Fortunately I'd say it's the only part of the game he's poor at which is why he's such a good overall player but that's a huge weakness for him. 100% IMO.
    Nope. Read:

    Horford’s defensive rebound percentage this season is 18.3, a mark that ranks in roughly the 25th percentile among centers.....

    Per game, Horford defends 6.2 shots at least 15 feet from the basket — the most of any center. Of those, 3.6 are 3-pointers, the second-highest total defended by a center. Of course those are just the shots where he is the defender closest to the shooter. There are plenty of other possessions where Horford is defending a big beyond the 3-point line away from the action and a shot-attempt.

    This trend is prevalent across the league — as bigs take more 3-pointers and outside jumpers, their defenders are pulled farther away from the basket. Boston’s defense is comfortable switching, Horford is extremely mobile for his position and so he often spends his time chasing stretchy bigs away from the paint. When he’s playing with another traditionalish big, Horford often takes the more mobile offensive player. He’s played just under half his minutes with Amir Johnson, who defends noticeably more interior shots (7.9 to 6.4) and post-up possessions (2.4 to 1.6) per 36 minutes. When Horford is the lone big in a small ball lineup, with someone like Jae Crowder at power forward, there’s even more of an advantage to be had if the offense can pull him out of the paint with a stretchy big, leaving the rim undefended.

    This doesn’t explain away everything about Horford’s rebounding — his shots defended numbers on the perimeter weren’t nearly as extreme last season — but it’s part of the context this year. And this may be as close to an explanation as we can get. Horford has probably lost a step. At best, he’s probably an average rebounder at this point in his career. But playing in a defensive scheme that often pulls him away from the paint emphasizes his shortcomings.

    Also, this goes without mentioning, but the lines of separation between good, bad and average are incredibly slim. Converting just one additional defensive rebound chance per game would be enough to move the Celtics from 27th in defensive rebound percentage to roughly 11th. Adding one additional rebounding chance per game to Horford’s total would move him from the 19th percentile among centers in defensive rebounding chances, to the 47th. Roughly one possession per game could be the difference between the Celtics and Horford being badly on the defensive glass or being average.
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  10. #550
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    It's amazing how Love continues to be the whipping boy when the Cavs underachieve... They traded for him and gave him a huge contract...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

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  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Nope. Read:

    Horford’s defensive rebound percentage this season is 18.3, a mark that ranks in roughly the 25th percentile among centers.....

    Per game, Horford defends 6.2 shots at least 15 feet from the basket — the most of any center. Of those, 3.6 are 3-pointers, the second-highest total defended by a center. Of course those are just the shots where he is the defender closest to the shooter. There are plenty of other possessions where Horford is defending a big beyond the 3-point line away from the action and a shot-attempt.

    This trend is prevalent across the league — as bigs take more 3-pointers and outside jumpers, their defenders are pulled farther away from the basket. Boston’s defense is comfortable switching, Horford is extremely mobile for his position and so he often spends his time chasing stretchy bigs away from the paint. When he’s playing with another traditionalish big, Horford often takes the more mobile offensive player. He’s played just under half his minutes with Amir Johnson, who defends noticeably more interior shots (7.9 to 6.4) and post-up possessions (2.4 to 1.6) per 36 minutes. When Horford is the lone big in a small ball lineup, with someone like Jae Crowder at power forward, there’s even more of an advantage to be had if the offense can pull him out of the paint with a stretchy big, leaving the rim undefended.

    This doesn’t explain away everything about Horford’s rebounding — his shots defended numbers on the perimeter weren’t nearly as extreme last season — but it’s part of the context this year. And this may be as close to an explanation as we can get. Horford has probably lost a step. At best, he’s probably an average rebounder at this point in his career. But playing in a defensive scheme that often pulls him away from the paint emphasizes his shortcomings.

    Also, this goes without mentioning, but the lines of separation between good, bad and average are incredibly slim. Converting just one additional defensive rebound chance per game would be enough to move the Celtics from 27th in defensive rebound percentage to roughly 11th. Adding one additional rebounding chance per game to Horford’s total would move him from the 19th percentile among centers in defensive rebounding chances, to the 47th. Roughly one possession per game could be the difference between the Celtics and Horford being badly on the defensive glass or being average.
    This was a great read. Interesting stuff. His teams have got crushed on the boards with us and back in ATL in the playoffs but his role does help to explain his involvement.

    I think part of the problem is that it stands out more vs. great teams. Being #10 out 30 starting centers in rebounding looks solid but if the playoffs roll around and your #8 out of 16 then that's worse. Especially when the team waiting for you in the ECF has TT and Kevin Love. Those playoff matchups have probably exaggerated how bad he actually he is on the glass league-wide. But at the end of the day those are the guys he needs to get through to win it all so something needs to be done to handle that matchup.


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