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  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    Well I should clarify I did not say blown saves, I said blown games which is the equivalent of losses. Our bullpen has given up more leads than any other. You can blame it on the offense sure, and the pen has been much better lately. But early in the year the bullpen was complete garbage and until we had Hader and Schwazak we had no one other than Knebel that could get outs.

    To defend Braun, he did miss some time and I think his injuries have taken away a bit of his slugging ability. I also don't think players have gotten on base in front of him very often. He's still our best bat when healthy and I don't think its close. Hopefully he can pick it up down the stretch and return to form next season.

    To talk about Jimmy Nelson a little, do you guys favor putting a DH in the NL? I've always been against it, but from a pure entertainment and keeping your pitchers healthy standpoint it somewhat makes sense. The pitcher is basically an automatic out in most games and it seems like half of pitching injuries happen while batting. I know you lose a little strategy by removing the pitchers spot in the order but I've heard an argument to fix that. Basically you're allowed a DH but only for the starting pitcher. As soon as the starter is removed you lose your DH (The player at DH would have the option to move to a position in place of any other fielder at that point). This would still force managers to use double switches and pinch hitters for the relief pitchers and keep the same strategy they use now, while almost never forcing a pitcher to bat. Thought?
    I know you didn't say blown saves, I just wanted to clarify to make sure everyone caught that. Because even saying blown games can be a bit deceiving. If a starter goes 5 and leaves with the game tied and the bullpen give up 1 run in 4 innings, but we lose because the offense didn't score, it's hard to fully blame the bullpen in that case. It counts as a blown game by definition, but that's on the offense as much as it is the bullpen. And given our inability to score runs after the first few innings, there's been a few games like that.

    Basically, I'm saying our offense has bailed the bullpen out much. Not an excuse for the bullpen, but other teams sometimes get bailed out by the offense putting up 3 runs after the 6th. We haven't.

    As for the DH thing. I used to be so opposed to the DH, but the idea is growing on me. Watching pitchers hit is brutal and it's disheartening to look at the lineup and see with 2 on and 2 outs, there's like a 10% chance at best the pitcher reaches. Ruins a lot of the excitement. Even if our 9th hitter is bad, it's still at least a little bit of intrigue in those situations.

    The idea you mentioned is one I first saw about 6 months ago on the main forum. In theory, I think I like it a lot, at least in theory. Like you said, it keeps an element of strategy in the game. I like that it also sort of minimizes the impact of a guy like David Ortiz, since he'd either have to play the field or be limited to 2 or 3 at bats per game if he were playing under the new proposal. Like I said, I like it in theory. I can't think of anything major, but I wonder if there would be an unexpected consequence that hasn't been factored in yet. That would be a hesitation for me. I think they'd have to try it in the minors for a year just to make sure there's not some weirdness that happens.

    I'd be interested how the players association would react. In theory, it creates jobs as you now have 15 more teams in need of a DH. But it also hurts DH only types, as they aren't quite as valuable anymore. So aging players may have some objections. I think tying this proposal to a 26th roster spot would be interesting thought. It would improve offense as a whole and create more mlb jobs. Players couldn't say no and owners wouldn't be paying much more, since player 26 is probably a pre arb or vet minimum type anyways.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    Well I should clarify I did not say blown saves, I said blown games which is the equivalent of losses. Our bullpen has given up more leads than any other. You can blame it on the offense sure, and the pen has been much better lately. But early in the year the bullpen was complete garbage and until we had Hader and Schwazak we had no one other than Knebel that could get outs.

    To defend Braun, he did miss some time and I think his injuries have taken away a bit of his slugging ability. I also don't think players have gotten on base in front of him very often. He's still our best bat when healthy and I don't think its close. Hopefully he can pick it up down the stretch and return to form next season.

    To talk about Jimmy Nelson a little, do you guys favor putting a DH in the NL? I've always been against it, but from a pure entertainment and keeping your pitchers healthy standpoint it somewhat makes sense. The pitcher is basically an automatic out in most games and it seems like half of pitching injuries happen while batting. I know you lose a little strategy by removing the pitchers spot in the order but I've heard an argument to fix that. Basically you're allowed a DH but only for the starting pitcher. As soon as the starter is removed you lose your DH (The player at DH would have the option to move to a position in place of any other fielder at that point). This would still force managers to use double switches and pinch hitters for the relief pitchers and keep the same strategy they use now, while almost never forcing a pitcher to bat. Thought?
    Idk. Actually Barnes was really good in April. Torres was OK but then got used almost daily and fell off drastically. But for the most part the pen has been an issue with middle relief. Losses and blown games are different. Losses can be games where you never have the lead which I am sure you know, just putting in context. Especially since the AS break the starters and bullpen have been fantastic.

  3. #378
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    I don't think the PA would have much of a complaint. Sure expand the roster by 1 spot. There's no way they'd come to the defense of the 5 players that can still hit at an all-star level but have basically zero ability to play the field. You want somelike like David Ortiz to get 4 ABs teach him how to play first at a reasonable level. Honestly my main argument against the DH all these years is that if you can't at least play defense at a somewhat profient level you don't deserve to be in the league. I've never viewed the DH as a position, but rather as a spot to give the pitcher a break from batting and a role that can be shifted around to give regular positions players some rest. I was often the DH while playing as a kid because I had pitched the game before (or was scheduled to pitch later) and they wanted my bat but didn't want me to strain my arm. It had nothing to do with the fact that I couldn't play the field.

    And perhaps we are missing some aspect of it, managers will most likely find a way to use said rule change to their advantage. But if anything that just adds to the strategy. My only cause for hesitation would be that big payroll teams may gain an even bigger advantage. It just gives them one more position to spend money whereas a team like the Brewers couldn't afford to spend $20 million for a part time player.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopackgo87 View Post
    Idk. Actually Barnes was really good in April. Torres was OK but then got used almost daily and fell off drastically. But for the most part the pen has been an issue with middle relief. Losses and blown games are different. Losses can be games where you never have the lead which I am sure you know, just putting in context. Especially since the AS break the starters and bullpen have been fantastic.
    If we are to look at statistics yes we are number one in bullpen losses, we are also top 5 in blown saves. But a lot of those numbers as crew pointed out are because we've played in far more close games than other teams. While we have a lot of blown saves we are also near the top in opportunites and are converting at a top 10 percentage. Most of our other bullpen statistics we rank somewhere near the middle of the pack. We have drastically improved post trade deadline in all catagories (thanks in large part to bullpen additions).

    All in all, I think our back end is very good, but if a starter struggles we're pretty screwed. I attribute the losses to a multitude of things including short outings from the starting pitching, lack of offense late, lack of offense in general, lack of talent to start the season, bad luck, and poor perfomances in the 6th/7th innings.

  5. #380
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    As for the 5 guys who can still hit but can't play the field. It's only 5 or so right now, but I do think there's a fair amount of guys who see that as the future. I think there's a lot of guys who look at a guy like Carlos Beltran as a great way to extend their career and hang around for awhile. So it's not that the PA would only be defending the Nelson Cruz types in the word, I think there's a lot of guys who view an almost full time DH give for a season or two as a way to squeeze a final $10 mill or so for 2 seasons at the end of their career. Older guys, who are typically the ones involved in the union, see that as their money maker at the end.

    As for small markets, I'm not sure it actually hurts the small markets a ton. If anything, it might help a little. Small market NL teams may be scared to sign players to an extension in the current format. Look at Braun as an example. Teams may be scared off to sign their guy like braun, in fear of the rest of the contract. Bringing any sort of DH to the NL may help justify those types of extensions.

  6. #381
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    I guess I just wouldn't see this as a way to criple older players careers, it would rather just eliminate the players that cannot play the field at all. Even as guys like Beltan or Pujols get older, if their bat is valuable enough they are serviceable in the field and can play there if needed. If teams have leads they may elect to sacrafice the bat for defense so some strategy comes into play. If you can't play the field at all (even if we're just taking 2-3 innings to end a game) I don't see an argument for you. I know what you're saying, the PA might defend those players, but I'm strictly stating my opinion here. A baseball player that cannot play the field at all is not a real baseball player and I'd like to see that position eliminated from the game. The lack of defense is why so many people hate the DH to begin with. Because you end up with players like David Ortiz who can be fat and out of shape, can't run or play defense, but can swing a stick and stay in the bigs forever. Its why no one elects a DH into the HOF. That position is a sham.

  7. #382
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    Another no-name pitcher stymies the Brewers.

  8. #383
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    I think it may be time for the Brewers to pack it in. I love the team don't get me wrong, and they've played their hearts out. But I just don't see what we do with the back end of the rotation with Nelson out now. We just don't have a lot of options and our offense isn't good enough to carry bad pitching. Even if we manage to by some miracle make the playoffs we have no chance of advancing past maybe the wild card game.

    I'm worried about Nelson's future too. Not sure on the severity of his injury, but shoulders can be tough to come back from. Hopefully he doesn't have long term negative issues. I think our lack of depth has really crippled us down the stretch. We may need to go out and get a serviceable 4th pitcher for next season just so that we aren't so thin there.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    I think it may be time for the Brewers to pack it in. I love the team don't get me wrong, and they've played their hearts out. But I just don't see what we do with the back end of the rotation with Nelson out now. We just don't have a lot of options and our offense isn't good enough to carry bad pitching. Even if we manage to by some miracle make the playoffs we have no chance of advancing past maybe the wild card game.

    I'm worried about Nelson's future too. Not sure on the severity of his injury, but shoulders can be tough to come back from. Hopefully he doesn't have long term negative issues. I think our lack of depth has really crippled us down the stretch. We may need to go out and get a serviceable 4th pitcher for next season just so that we aren't so thin there.
    Brian Anderson had a great quote and is exactly how I feel. This team is extremely fun to watch, but it's equally as maddening too.

  10. #385
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    The Nelson injury is SOOOOOO freaking frustrating!!!! 😤😤😤. What a complete freak chance that that would happen? Arghhhhh

  11. #386
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    I like Phillips in center field over Broxton. Offensively it at least gives us something different. A glimpse of hope. He's more than capable in the outfield as well.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    I like Phillips in center field over Broxton. Offensively it at least gives us something different. A glimpse of hope. He's more than capable in the outfield as well.
    I agree. Play Broxton vs. LHP but other than that see no real need to start Keon. Phillips has similar pop, makes more contact and has a better arm.

    Great to see Thames showing some signs of life here. Big to get some pop from him the next couple of weeks. If the Brewers can stay within 2 games of Cubs when they come to MIL next week.....

  13. #388
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    With our injuries, have to figure we'll need that April offense to return to stay in this thing. We have a lot of guys who have never really been in a playoff race. Hopefully they can stay somewhat relaxed and not all try to be the hero. Everyone focus on getting good at bats, not hitting a 500 ft homer every time.

  14. #389
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    Is it just me or does it seem like no one is even trying against the Cubs? I know they have a decent roster but everytime I turn around they have 15 runs on the board. Our pitching completely shut them down, so its not like they can't be stopped. Just frustrating because it seems like the Brewers basically have to be perfect to catch up.

    In the end we did this to ourselves. Going to be tough to make the playoffs now but hopefully St. Louis can put up a better fight against the Cubs.

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    Is it just me or does it seem like no one is even trying against the Cubs? I know they have a decent roster but everytime I turn around they have 15 runs on the board. Our pitching completely shut them down, so its not like they can't be stopped. Just frustrating because it seems like the Brewers basically have to be perfect to catch up.

    In the end we did this to ourselves. Going to be tough to make the playoffs now but hopefully St. Louis can put up a better fight against the Cubs.
    The Brewers played the Reds and couldn't hit. If you are ahead of the Reds they stink other than Iglesias in the pen. The Mets are trying people on the mound and are banged up. The Cubs are taking advantage of the schedule as good teams should. It's teams that are out of the race trying to see what they have with their young arms. So, in essence it's not about the wins and losses but getting guys experience.

    When you are down in the race you do need to be almost perfect. Take care of yourself is what the Brewers should be worried about. They have 4 games left with the Cubs. Take care of Marlins and stay within a series win of being even in the division.

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