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  1. #2161
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    South Jersey
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    14,344
    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    Disagree. Ghost's physical game will never compare but he is flat out better offensively and in the nzone. His contract is a steal for a top 4 guy. His defensive stickwork is elite

    You have the weirdest evaluation system where I agree about 85% of the time. Ghost is our letang. Enjoy it. He is a beast.

    Letang based on what, though? That's extremely high praise not backed by any real data. Parayko and Slavin grade out better than Ghost.


    I love Ghost's contract. It's a great deal. But if I had the choice to have Ghost, Parayko or Slavin, Ghost would be 3rd on that list. He's absolutely one of the more dynamic offensive defensemen in the league, but he doesn't have the all around game of Parayko or Slavin.


    And more importantly, it doesn't make much sense to me at all that you get so upset when I objectively grade Ghost, like you think I hate him or something. That is the absolute farthest thing from the truth. I love Ghost, but to compare him to a guy who's been a steady #1 D man is not fair to Ghost. He does a lot of things well, but he's not a #1 D man.


    You even say so in your post, so why then go down the road of comparing him to one and then get upset when I say Parayko and Slavin have higher ceilings when they clearly do?



    Find the data that says Ghost is "flat out better offensively and in the nzone" than Parayko and Slavin. If he is, great, I'm not seeing it from what I'm researching, and in terms of overall impact, I still say Parayko and Slavin have a significant edge.


    EDIT: I'll give you a place to find your data:

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC


    This page specifically goes into the past 2 seasons, defensemen with at least 2000 minutes played over that span.


    Go ahead and comb through it if you like, but I can give you the summary and say Parayko and Slavin outrank Ghost in nearly every major category.


    Neutral zone scores unfortunately aren't a thing league-wide yet, but offensive data certainly is, and as good as Ghost has been - and he's been damn good - Parayko and Slavin have been better.


    This. Is. Not. A. Knock. Against. Ghost.


    Just admitting there are better players out there. I don't see the problem with that.
    Last edited by phillyeaglesman; Yesterday at 10:16 AM.

  2. #2162
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    6,223
    because we have provorov id go ghost over slavin but parayko is a stud. Just a different skill set that is beneficial to our team. Ghost/provorov is what blues had in pietrangelo/shattenkirk.

  3. #2163
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,604
    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    because we have provorov id go ghost over slavin but parayko is a stud. Just a different skill set that is beneficial to our team. Ghost/provorov is what blues had in pietrangelo/shattenkirk.
    Myers will be just as good, if not better than Parayko.

    I'm being wayyy too overly positive but I've seen things from our young guys that are that exciting.

  4. #2164
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,604
    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    Letang based on what, though? That's extremely high praise not backed by any real data. Parayko and Slavin grade out better than Ghost.


    I love Ghost's contract. It's a great deal. But if I had the choice to have Ghost, Parayko or Slavin, Ghost would be 3rd on that list. He's absolutely one of the more dynamic offensive defensemen in the league, but he doesn't have the all around game of Parayko or Slavin.


    And more importantly, it doesn't make much sense to me at all that you get so upset when I objectively grade Ghost, like you think I hate him or something. That is the absolute farthest thing from the truth. I love Ghost, but to compare him to a guy who's been a steady #1 D man is not fair to Ghost. He does a lot of things well, but he's not a #1 D man.


    You even say so in your post, so why then go down the road of comparing him to one and then get upset when I say Parayko and Slavin have higher ceilings when they clearly do?



    Find the data that says Ghost is "flat out better offensively and in the nzone" than Parayko and Slavin. If he is, great, I'm not seeing it from what I'm researching, and in terms of overall impact, I still say Parayko and Slavin have a significant edge.


    EDIT: I'll give you a place to find your data:

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC


    This page specifically goes into the past 2 seasons, defensemen with at least 2000 minutes played over that span.


    Go ahead and comb through it if you like, but I can give you the summary and say Parayko and Slavin outrank Ghost in nearly every major category.


    Neutral zone scores unfortunately aren't a thing league-wide yet, but offensive data certainly is, and as good as Ghost has been - and he's been damn good - Parayko and Slavin have been better.


    This. Is. Not. A. Knock. Against. Ghost.


    Just admitting there are better players out there. I don't see the problem with that.
    Letang is far from elite defensively and is the same liability as ghost in his own zone. He also can't stay healthy ... #1 status is iffy for letang.

    Considering ghost has comparable points to letang, where in only 1 season letang put up more points than ghost 2 years ago ... and letang has played wayyy more years, im absolutely fine saying ghost is a letang comparable.

    Letang was only good on the breakout, first pass, NZ, and OZ. ... pretty much extract match to ghost

  5. #2165
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    California
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    6,223
    cmon letang is a better defender than ghost. Ghost would put up crazy numbers tho if he played with crosby and malkin

  6. #2166
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    5,604
    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    cmon letang is a better defender than ghost. Ghost would put up crazy numbers tho if he played with crosby and malkin
    Yep. Letang is meh as a defender. He has the benefit of playing with Crosby and Malkin on the PP too

  7. #2167
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    6,614
    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    Letang is far from elite defensively and is the same liability as ghost in his own zone. He also can't stay healthy ... #1 status is iffy for letang.

    Considering ghost has comparable points to letang, where in only 1 season letang put up more points than ghost 2 years ago ... and letang has played wayyy more years, im absolutely fine saying ghost is a letang comparable.

    Letang was only good on the breakout, first pass, NZ, and OZ. ... pretty much extract match to ghost
    I'm more interested in the rates (p/60, g/60)-- and Ghost is pretty damn impressive in that regard.

    Letang can be a #1 defenseman, but again, he can't stay on the ice. And when he's there, his points totals are jacked by Crosby & Malkin. Hell, those two turned Justin Schultz from a bust into a legitimate top pairing guy.

    PIT has, objectively, 2 of the top 10 players in the world on their roster. It's silly to think that they wouldn't be able to super-charge the stats of already talented players.

    And why would you compare Ghost to Slavin & Parakyo? Completely different players. You might as well compare Jagr to Marner.

    Compare him to guys like Vatanen, Letang, Werenski, etc.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

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