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  1. #46
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    Dec 2012
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    I think Pat Burrell or Pedro Feliz (maybe not as proficient defensively as Feliz) is an excellent comp for Franco in terms of skill, I actually hope he offers a tad bit more than that but I don't see winning as a motivating factor for him as it was for Burrell. I don't see him offering the same value as Werth and his skill set and contribution is completely different than what Victorino offered. I think you understate Werth's value to the Championship run. Werth's pitch count per AB, walk rate, power, aggressiveness and defense capabilities made him equally as valuable as Utley (on a dollar/WAR basis), maybe more valuable to some degree than Howard because of his consistency but Howard carried that team for weeks on end at times, and less valuable than Rollins by a decent margin.

    Franco isn't being billed as the 4th/5th guy, he's being billed as the number one or two piece the Phillies build around. Even Jayson Stark with Missinelli said that he doesn't see the star power on the Phillies like the Cubs had during their rebuild and I think Mr. Stark knows a little something about baseball.

    Franco doesn't think he's the Werth, he thinks he's the Howard or maybe even the Rollins for the next run. He's not. But he's going to want to get paid like he's Manny Machado and he's going to want to sit in the 3/4 spot in the lineup when he's probably a 5/6, he should probably be in the 5th spot now, he's costing the Phillies offensive production. I'm not saying dump him for a bag of balls, I started this discussion by saying if he's the lynchpin to getting a guy like Trout than it's a no brainer. If Franco can get the Phillies a Hamels type return then again, you make that deal and I believe the FO feels similarly and is exploring all possibilities.

    I missed these spirited debates!
    Last edited by axstone26; 05-05-2017 at 10:53 AM.

  2. #47
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    I'm not saying they are comparable in talent, I'm saying they are comparable in their tiers to the team. Franco should be a second tier player and you need those.

    If Crawford can come up and be a tier 1 guy, maybe Hoskins can too, you have a Harper/Machado coming in to stick on that tier 1 as well. You then have guys like Herrera and Hernandez and Alfaro, Quinn, AA who can be teetering between that 2nd tier as well. You don't need another Howard/Utley/Rollins, you just need above average players and Franco should be that. If you had a team full of 2015 Francos (which hopefully he will get back to, the dude is 24) you'd have a great team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
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  3. #48
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    Nov 2007
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    15,841
    Franco's downfall is the fact that the Phillies currently (or over the past 3-4 years) haven't had any star power hitting prospects that can shoulder the expectations, he has been by far the best. Guys like Cesar, Odubel, Altherr, etc didn't have high expectations coming up (or coming in for Odubel) so whatever we get from them was a bonus. Franco had that top 50 prospects high expectations ceiling, so people expected too much. Most people knew of his skill set and his limitations but since they had no one else Phillies fans placed their faith in him. It's just like a 1st round pick in football (I use football since baseball is slightly different). You expect immediate great success especially a high draft pick on a bad team. If you don't get that, you are disappointed, even if the player is still solid contributor. Franco can still be a solid contributor on a winning team.

  4. #49
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    Could you imagine Harper, Trout and Machado on the Phils?

  5. #50
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    Nov 2007
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    No, honestly I can't. I would settle for one of them though, especially if they didn't have to give up any prospects for them.

  6. #51
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    Dec 2012
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    And another brain dead atbat but Franco. All the natural ability in the world but more focused on the three run home run than getting the runner in from third with one out.

  7. #52
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    I didn't see the at bat in question, but I will point out that swinging for a home run and swinging for a sac fly are the exact same thing.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  8. #53
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    Dec 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    I didn't see the at bat in question, but I will point out that swinging for a home run and swinging for a sac fly are the exact same thing.
    First and Third one out, Maikel Franco strikes out swinging and Odubel Herrera, who was running on the play, is called out at second due to interference by Franco.

    How about Werth saying he see's himself in AA I never understood the Werth hate. Boo Amaro for not locking him up early enough and for over valuing D. Brown. Who would walk away from $125M? I wouldn't.

  9. #54
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    Dec 2012
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    From CoreySeidmanCSN: To this point, Franco has been a decent run producer but he doesn't get on base enough or have a consistent enough approach at the plate. To be honest, I don't think he's ever going to develop the skills necessary to control an at-bat and make pitchers feel like they must handle him with care. One at-bat doesn't seem to dictate the next for Franco. He'll get hot for two nights and then go 1-for-12 and chase a handful of pitches out of the strike zone the next three days.

    I can't even definitely say Maikel Franco will be starting every day for the Phillies in 2020 because there will be impressive free agents at his position (Manny Machado, for example) who move the needle more than Franco.


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  10. #55
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    May 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by axstone26 View Post
    From CoreySeidmanCSN: To this point, Franco has been a decent run producer but he doesn't get on base enough or have a consistent enough approach at the plate. To be honest, I don't think he's ever going to develop the skills necessary to control an at-bat and make pitchers feel like they must handle him with care. One at-bat doesn't seem to dictate the next for Franco. He'll get hot for two nights and then go 1-for-12 and chase a handful of pitches out of the strike zone the next three days.

    I can't even definitely say Maikel Franco will be starting every day for the Phillies in 2020 because there will be impressive free agents at his position (Manny Machado, for example) who move the needle more than Franco.


    He's been following me on here, I know it

    Funny Corey said that about Franco. Keith Law from Espn when they were doing chats stated Franco was an average player and his plate discipline will be his undoing. Also said defensively Franco is below average 3rd basements.

    I was hoping Law would be wrong about Franco but his words are ringing true two years later. Franco and Odrubel Herrera have to be the most undisciplined Phillies hitters and it's tough to watch. On the flipside, I'm impressed with Altherr and Hernandez. They both seem to have a plan when they re hitting. As of today, they are the only two players that offer hope in what looks to be amother rough year as a Phillies fan.

  11. #56
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    AA is bae.


    Authentic Phillies, Eagles , Sixers fan
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  12. #57
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    Nov 2006
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    Doobie's doing pretty well though...he's on another 3-4 WAR pace. He's a little more pull happy this year, but he'll smooth that out. Maybe there's an expectation that he'll be a superstar because he's been the best player in each of the last two seasons. That's not really who he is. He's better than a typical core player but worse than a star.

    Franco is a core player who retains big upside. It's a slow to develop profile. Just be patient and hope he stays healthy.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  13. #58
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    Dylan cozens coming around and Hoskins and Alfaro still playing well. Eshelman had a great start to AAA career as well all minor league teams doing well. Looking toward the future because the big club has been a tough watch. On the bright side, it does appear that AA is a building block.
    2011 PSD Phillies Forum HOF Inductee


    Harry, I grew up with the phillies and learned the game by your voice. You will always be missed but never forgotten. Though you are no longer with us, you'll never be "outta here" in our hearts!

  14. #59
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    Well, I think it's safe to assume Aaron Altherr won't be losing any playing time to Howie Kendrick.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  15. #60
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    Jun 2007
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    Who is howie kendrick...
    2011 PSD Phillies Forum HOF Inductee


    Harry, I grew up with the phillies and learned the game by your voice. You will always be missed but never forgotten. Though you are no longer with us, you'll never be "outta here" in our hearts!

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