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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    The thing about baseball is that adjustments can happen spontaneously at any moment. I bet you were pretty much out on Odubel Herrera earlier this year, right? Then he morphed into a top 5 player in the league for a stretch. Now he's back on pace for his third straight 4 win season. Franco doesn't have the baseline of Herrera, but he does have very positive peripherals. I'm going to keep pointing at Edwin Encarnacion - they're very similar.
    I wasnít down on Herrera, he had a track record. Spontaneously figuring it out is the exception, the percentage of players who figure it out is less than 10% of players in similar positions as Franco. Youíre stuck with him for next year but at this point you have to assume heís not a piece of the future. I am blown away that people defend Franco but not Joseph, they are the same player. TJ isnít the future and neither is Franco for the same reasons.

  2. #272
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    Your made up stat is quite inaccurate. Nearly every player in the majors has figured it out spontaneously. Show me a major league roster and I'll point out 20 guys who were crap until one day they weren't. Hell, even Mike Trout was a below average quality MLBer in his first exposure before "figuring it out."

    We're not actually suggesting different things though, so we can probably let this discussion end. We all think Franco should start until a better option comes along. Hell, I wanted to try trading him and Neshek for Sandoval's contract and Rafael Devers. While I'm confident a healthy Franco will one day be a monster hitter, the Phillies are a first division club and don't need to wait until it happens. If they can get Machado or somebody else, they should.

    Incidentally, you're not hearing anything about TJ because somebody better came along.
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  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    Your made up stat is quite inaccurate. Nearly every player in the majors has figured it out spontaneously. Show me a major league roster and I'll point out 20 guys who were crap until one day they weren't. Hell, even Mike Trout was a below average quality MLBer in his first exposure before "figuring it out."
    Apologies, I meant after 1,500 AB's. Yes, every MLB has figured it out at some time but less than 10% figure it out after 1,500 AB's. Figure it out is an arbitrary term so I'm using this to mean turning from below average to top 10 in the MLB at their position.

    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    Incidentally, you're not hearing anything about TJ because somebody better came along.
    I state this because the Franco to Encarnacion comparison's seem to have some merit but the comparisons aren't being made to TJ because TJ isn't Hispanic, not because of Hoskins.

  4. #274
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    If they find a better option for Franco I'm all for it. If they feel Galvis is the SS of the future and Crawford can play 3B full time (and is fully ready), again, I'm all for it. I'm not for trading him for a bag of balls and having no good options at 3B. At least Franco has a chance (maybe not a great one but a chance) at being a plus offensive MLB bat. Franco isn't a guy that should prevent roster moves but he isn't a guy you throw to the curb for nothing. I think we can all agree on that.

  5. #275
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    That's interesting JP playing 3rd base, could be a great option if we don't bag Machado.

    The thing is that Cesar is playing great, and I will like to see Kingery before we give him the keys to the car.


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  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by axstone26 View Post
    Apologies, I meant after 1,500 AB's. Yes, every MLB has figured it out at some time but less than 10% figure it out after 1,500 AB's. Figure it out is an arbitrary term so I'm using this to mean turning from below average to top 10 in the MLB at their position.



    I state this because the Franco to Encarnacion comparison's seem to have some merit but the comparisons aren't being made to TJ because TJ isn't Hispanic, not because of Hoskins.
    Well TJ isn't getting comped to EE because nothing about his profile looks like EE. He's most similar to Gattis or Duvall. I can't do anything about those guys being white, the comps are purely statistical.

    Oh, and as for the number of PA, we could also reframe by age. Many players figure it out between 25 and 29. Like a third of them.
    Last edited by The A Team; 08-18-2017 at 04:59 PM.
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  7. #277
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    The middle infield does represent a conundrum. Don't be surprised if the club trades Kingery to solve a need elsewhere. I see that as most likely to happen in the winter of 2018-19 if Hernandez has another strong season and the club nets Machado and/or Harper. In the meantime, an injury to Hernandez could give Kingery a shot to establish himself.

    On the Galvis side of things, I suspect he'll be allowed to become a free agent. However, if he wants to remain a part of the club, he'd be a solid super utility guy. He deserves to start somewhere though. He's a league average player, and there's always a chance he pulls a Cozart.
    Last edited by The A Team; 08-18-2017 at 04:57 PM.
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  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burkey3472 View Post
    If they find a better option for Franco I'm all for it. If they feel Galvis is the SS of the future and Crawford can play 3B full time (and is fully ready), again, I'm all for it. I'm not for trading him for a bag of balls and having no good options at 3B. At least Franco has a chance (maybe not a great one but a chance) at being a plus offensive MLB bat. Franco isn't a guy that should prevent roster moves but he isn't a guy you throw to the curb for nothing. I think we can all agree on that.
    I agree. I just don't see him turning it around, he's Dom Brown 2.0.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    The middle infield does represent a conundrum. Don't be surprised if the club trades Kingery to solve a need elsewhere. I see that as most likely to happen in the winter of 2018-19 if Hernandez has another strong season and the club nets Machado and/or Harper. In the meantime, an injury to Hernandez could give Kingery a shot to establish himself.

    On the Galvis side of things, I suspect he'll be allowed to become a free agent. However, if he wants to remain a part of the club, he'd be a solid super utility guy. He deserves to start somewhere though. He's a league average player, and there's always a chance he pulls a Cozart.
    I would hate keeping Hernandez and trading Kingery. I have no idea if Kingery will be a solid MLB player but he has the "it" factor and we need someone with the "it" factor, leader on this team that is extremely competitive.

  10. #280
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    You only say that because you haven't seen him play... Hernandez is nearly as good as Odubel Herrera. That's a high bar for Kingery to surpass. I tend to think he can, but they have to be careful to not make the wrong decision. The issue is that neither player can really field another position. It's a Polanco/Utley situation except Cesar is only 27.
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  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    You only say that because you haven't seen him play... Hernandez is nearly as good as Odubel Herrera. That's a high bar for Kingery to surpass. I tend to think he can, but they have to be careful to not make the wrong decision. The issue is that neither player can really field another position. It's a Polanco/Utley situation except Cesar is only 27.
    That's it, move one of them to 3rd! Joking obviously, but would certainly solve one problem.

  12. #282
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    Neither of them is capable of playing third.
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  13. #283
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    Crawford has been playing a little 3rd in the minors so maybe he is the answer there. The way he has been hitting since July he deserves a with the big club.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    You only say that because you haven't seen him play... Hernandez is nearly as good as Odubel Herrera. That's a high bar for Kingery to surpass. I tend to think he can, but they have to be careful to not make the wrong decision. The issue is that neither player can really field another position. It's a Polanco/Utley situation except Cesar is only 27.
    I hope Kingery is the next Utley. I'm not down on Hernandez, I just want someone who plays with a little moxi on this team, someone who says "get me to the plate boys" or plays with an intensity that says we aren't going to get beat today. I think the Phillies have a bright future but they need that fiercely competitive home grown guy. I believe there is more to the game than what can be quantified statistically. Statistics have their purpose but they also overrate a Jason Heyward and under value a Ryan Howard (pre-achilles injury).

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burkey3472 View Post
    Crawford has been playing a little 3rd in the minors so maybe he is the answer there. The way he has been hitting since July he deserves a with the big club.
    As I've been saying, Franco is not the future. The Phillies see it, why does everyone defend Franco as the next Encarnacion (you know the guy whose been primarily a DH since he "figured it out" in 2012 and the NL doesn't have a DH right. Which is BS).

    Maikel Fatco is not the next Encarnacion, let's see what the kid can do, his defense has to be better.

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