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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Maybe. And it's a big maybe. At best he was 5.

    Not an argument to be made that he was better than Brees, Brady or Rodgers. Romo was better, unless you only care about yards. Stafford, Ben, and Ryan are right there for that 5 spot.

    Not gonna pretend like I know how great their OL was that year, but I have one point of reference and that was their line being much better than NE's in the Super Bowl. And Football Outsiders (for whatever it's worth) had them as the 6th best pass protecting line.


    Again, I just think suggesting he'll easily put up top-5 numbers is weird. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, Luck, Bradford, Carr, etc. There's just way too many good QBs for me to buy it. We'll see. I'd just easily take any bet against bdawk's claims.

    I don't think he'll easily put up top 5 numbers because of the OLine, playcalling, and because the defense should be a top 10 defense again. He won't need to carry this team.

    But 2011 the OLine picked up its play later in the season, but Eli was working with the 32nd ranked running game in the league and a defense allowing the 25th most points in the league. The defense obviously started playing great towards the end of the year into the playoffs and didn't look back, but there's a reason that 5 out of the 9 Giants wins in the regular season that year came from GW Eli drives.

    Giants did get really lucky that Diehl played so well at LT in the playoffs though, because he was not playing well until Beatty got hurt and he started playing LT.

    Now I think Eli had a bad year by Eli standards last year, but Eli in 2011 carried the team until Week 16.

    As for Eli the next year or two, I'm not too worried because the Giants bookends were turnstyles, we couldn't run the ball, and McAdoo the HC playcaller was ridiculously worse than McAdoo the OC playcaller (partly to protect leads and confidence in the defense).

    What is worrisome is that the biggest holes on offense is Oline and the draft doesn't have many good tackles and we can't afford someone like Whitworth. But FA just started, let's see what happens.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantsSwaGG View Post
    Its different, in Indy Johnson was pretty much their second option. Marshall will be our 3rd/4th if we draft a TE. We just need a reliable possession WR nothing more. We're not asking him to produce 1,000 receiving yards. Move the chains on 3rd down and catch TD's in the red zone and take some attention away from Shepard and OBJ so they can ball!!!
    It’s pretty much exactly the same situation. Indy was hoping Andre would do the exact same thing for Hilton and Moncreif/Dorsett

    It’s actually scary how their numbers align at the ends of their careers.

    2 years before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 109 REC 1,407 REC 5 TDS – Age 32 – 16 games
    Marshall 109 REC 1,502 YDS 14 TDS – Age 31 – 16 games

    Year before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 85 REC 936 YDS 3 TDS – Age 33 – 15 games
    Marshall 59 REC 788 YDS 3 TDS – Age 32 – 15 games

    I'd keep your hopes relatively low here.

    City of Champions

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    It’s pretty much exactly the same situation. Indy was hoping Andre would do the exact same thing for Hilton and Moncreif/Dorsett

    It’s actually scary how their numbers align at the ends of their careers.

    2 years before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 109 REC 1,407 REC 5 TDS – Age 32 – 16 games
    Marshall 109 REC 1,502 YDS 14 TDS – Age 31 – 16 games

    Year before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 85 REC 936 YDS 3 TDS – Age 33 – 15 games
    Marshall 59 REC 788 YDS 3 TDS – Age 32 – 15 games

    I'd keep your hopes relatively low here.
    Like what are you seriously trying to prove? Your comparing a Possession WR to a guy who was based on speed in his younger days. The point is we improved with Marshall replacing Cruz. End of story.
    the Orlando Magic select.....Dennis Smith Jr ,Guard from North Carolina State university

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicBucsSox View Post
    Like what are you seriously trying to prove? Your comparing a Possession WR to a guy who was based on speed in his younger days. The point is we improved with Marshall replacing Cruz. End of story.
    And I've said that in my previous posts if you actually read them.

    My point was in response to another posters claim that the signings weren't even close to similar. They are. Marshall is without a doubt better than Cruz at this point in their respective careers. But others are claiming this signing makes the Giants have the best WR group in the NFL (doubtful) and that this offense and/or Eli will be top 5 (also doubtful). MY POINT was to pump the brakes on that notion. Marshall is still serviceable but he's not the Marshall we've known throughout his career anymore. It's a very similar situation to the Andre Johnson signing. I expect he'll help and make some nice plays, take some pressure off OBJ and Sheppard, but he's not going to transform this offense all on his own. The offense still has glaring holes. And going to a 30+ year old WR on the downside of his career isn't going to change that.

    City of Champions

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    It’s pretty much exactly the same situation. Indy was hoping Andre would do the exact same thing for Hilton and Moncreif/Dorsett

    It’s actually scary how their numbers align at the ends of their careers.

    2 years before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 109 REC 1,407 REC 5 TDS – Age 32 – 16 games
    Marshall 109 REC 1,502 YDS 14 TDS – Age 31 – 16 games

    Year before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 85 REC 936 YDS 3 TDS – Age 33 – 15 games
    Marshall 59 REC 788 YDS 3 TDS – Age 32 – 15 games

    I'd keep your hopes relatively low here.
    It's almost like QB play affected them. Weird.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    And I've said that in my previous posts if you actually read them.

    My point was in response to another posters claim that the signings weren't even close to similar. They are. Marshall is without a doubt better than Cruz at this point in their respective careers. But others are claiming this signing makes the Giants have the best WR group in the NFL (doubtful) and that this offense and/or Eli will be top 5 (also doubtful). MY POINT was to pump the brakes on that notion. Marshall is still serviceable but he's not the Marshall we've known throughout his career anymore. It's a very similar situation to the Andre Johnson signing. I expect he'll help and make some nice plays, take some pressure off OBJ and Sheppard, but he's not going to transform this offense all on his own. The offense still has glaring holes. And going to a 30+ year old WR on the downside of his career isn't going to change that.
    So are teams still gonna double ODell? Bc if so sign me up for that. Marshall vs #2 CBs and Shepard vs safety's?

    The offense still has holes? Dude FREE AGENCY HASNT EVEN STARTED HEY RELAX. Marshall isn't like Johnson because he's not dependent on his speed like AJ was.
    the Orlando Magic select.....Dennis Smith Jr ,Guard from North Carolina State university

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    It’s pretty much exactly the same situation. Indy was hoping Andre would do the exact same thing for Hilton and Moncreif/Dorsett

    It’s actually scary how their numbers align at the ends of their careers.

    2 years before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 109 REC 1,407 REC 5 TDS – Age 32 – 16 games
    Marshall 109 REC 1,502 YDS 14 TDS – Age 31 – 16 games

    Year before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 85 REC 936 YDS 3 TDS – Age 33 – 15 games
    Marshall 59 REC 788 YDS 3 TDS – Age 32 – 15 games

    I'd keep your hopes relatively low here.
    Again it's different because OBJ is light years better than Hilton and same with Shepard. All we need is a possession WR nothing more. Plus factor in we either going to draft a TE or sign Bennett (I hope not) but all in all I'm not expecting a pro bowl Marshall, just a possession WR that will be a red zone threat. So my expectations are already low!

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    It’s pretty much exactly the same situation. Indy was hoping Andre would do the exact same thing for Hilton and Moncreif/Dorsett

    It’s actually scary how their numbers align at the ends of their careers.

    2 years before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 109 REC 1,407 REC 5 TDS – Age 32 – 16 games
    Marshall 109 REC 1,502 YDS 14 TDS – Age 31 – 16 games

    Year before arriving to their new teams
    Johnson 85 REC 936 YDS 3 TDS – Age 33 – 15 games
    Marshall 59 REC 788 YDS 3 TDS – Age 32 – 15 games

    I'd keep your hopes relatively low here.
    You could be right. I definitely think there is bust potential here. Any time you have a player who is nearing the average age of decline for their position, there is a chance that player indeed declines. I think for WRs it's usually around 33-34 years old.

    At the same time, just because Andre was a bust for Indy doesn't mean Marshall will be a bust for NYG. It depends on what type of shape Marshall is in at his age and how he fits in our system. And in general every player is different. I never would have thought Frank Gore would be a productive player Indy these past couple of years based on his age or that Steve Smith would have been so good for Baltimore. There are examples of the positive as well as the negative. Another positive example is Tony G in ATL. It's very possible that Marshall at age 33 can still ball and the Jets QB and offensive issues may have affected his production more than any decline in his skill last year.

    So yeah, I think there is certainly some bust potential here at his age, but there's also nice upside potential too. I'm more optimistic about Marshall for some reason. He still just looks like a beast physically. We'll have to wait and see.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 03-09-2017 at 10:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    And I've said that in my previous posts if you actually read them.

    My point was in response to another posters claim that the signings weren't even close to similar. They are. Marshall is without a doubt better than Cruz at this point in their respective careers. But others are claiming this signing makes the Giants have the best WR group in the NFL (doubtful) and that this offense and/or Eli will be top 5 (also doubtful). MY POINT was to pump the brakes on that notion. Marshall is still serviceable but he's not the Marshall we've known throughout his career anymore. It's a very similar situation to the Andre Johnson signing. I expect he'll help and make some nice plays, take some pressure off OBJ and Sheppard, but he's not going to transform this offense all on his own. The offense still has glaring holes. And going to a 30+ year old WR on the downside of his career isn't going to change that.
    Fair point
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    It's almost like QB play affected them. Weird.
    Johnson had the same QB...

    Marshall had Fitz the majority of the season, same QB as the year before. Nice try

    City of Champions

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    You could be right. I definitely think there is bust potential here. Any time you have a player who is nearing the average age of decline for their position, there is a chance that player indeed declines. I think for WRs it's usually around 33-34 years old.

    At the same time, just because Andre was a bust for Indy doesn't mean Marshall will be a bust for NYG. It depends on what type of shape Marshall is in at his age and how he fits in our system. And in general every player is different. I never would have thought Frank Gore would be a productive player Indy these past couple of years based on his age or that Steve Smith would have been so good for Baltimore. There are examples of the positive as well as the negative. Another positive example is Tony G in ATL. It's very possible that Marshall at age 33 can still ball and the Jets QB and offensive issues may have affected his production more than any decline in his skill last year.

    So yeah, I think there is certainly some bust potential here at his age, but there's also nice upside potential too. I'm more optimistic about Marshall for some reason. He still just looks like a beast physically. We'll have to wait and see.
    Oh there's always going to be outliers no doubt. And Marshall very well could be one. I was just point out the similarities. I disagreed with the poster who said they're absolutely not the same type of situations. I think they very well could be. And I was even more surprised when I looked at the numbers and how similar they were. It's a trend, it doesn't mean its a fact, but it is definitely something to be concerned about.

    City of Champions

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Johnson had the same QB...

    Marshall had Fitz the majority of the season, same QB as the year before. Nice try
    Look at the overall play of their QBs during those two years. See a difference from one year to the next?

  13. #58
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    A great move for the Giants. Very affordable contract.
    World Championships



    New York Mets: 1969, 1986
    Miracle Mets


    New York Jets: 1968
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    Brooklyn Nets: 1974, 1976
    Dr. J (ABA)


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    Potvin's Cups

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDawk4Prez View Post
    Look at the overall play of their QBs during those two years. See a difference from one year to the next?
    Yeah...Cause typically when your #1 WR drops off in play, it affects the QB...

    City of Champions

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Yeah...Cause typically when your #1 WR drops off in play, it affects the QB...
    Or is it when your QB drops off in play it affects the WR.

    See: Deandre Hopkins

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