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Thread: March Thread

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    hextall is either responsible or negligent. either one is a problem.

    there are three main differences between this year and last year:
    1: the goalies were good last year and they aren't this year
    2: ghost was a top 10 D last year and he's just a guy this year
    3: the depth guys had a pulse last year and they flatlined this year
    hextall just gave him 3MM.
    Hextall hired the coach, the coach made the choices on who to put on the ice NOT Hextall. Do you understand that if Hextall starting calling the shots, it would be darn near impossible to get a good coach to come along? No coach wants his authority undermined, especially not the great ones. Hextall is letting Hak hang himself OR, as I have said, he has some other plan in place right now. You don't know what is going on in his head so why act like it. Do any of us honestly believe that we know more about the abilities of the team than Hextall does? Just sayin...

    On your other three points....
    1: I said this..."Our goaltending has been suspect at best for large stretches."
    2: Ghost has 31pts. this season. If you believed that he was going to keep up his pace from last season, you were dreaming. That was an other-worldly type of start for him. Also, he has been bounced in and out of the lineup by Hak, who has made him the scapegoat for our team's shortcomings this season. He is doing fine, but could be doing better with a better system and more confidence instilled into him by our coach.
    3: Depth guys were a joke last year lol they still are. We got away with it because of plays from Ghost and a mostly healthy G and good goaltending.

    Last point in RE: to PEB......it is a 2 year deal...in 2 years...PEB will be gone....it is a measly 1.45AAV...There is really nothing to do with that money this year and then next year we have enough coming off the books to where it is not really effecting too much. I feel like we have been through this.

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    it's not about blaming anyone, it's about figuring out what happened. this team was better last year than it is this year and it is important to understand why.
    The reason is really simple yet complex...The team is underperforming this year while last year they over-performed. We got the extremes in both cases. Realistically, this team should be where last year's team was...if that makes sense. Next year should be another small step forward...each year should really be a progression forward for the next few years. That is why we should be excited...if anything, this season is giving us the opportunity to take a larger step forward, IF we can win the draft lotto, or finish low enough

  3. #573
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    3: Depth guys were a joke last year lol they still are. We got away with it because of plays from Ghost and a mostly healthy G and good goaltending.

    Last point in RE: to PEB......it is a 2 year deal...in 2 years...PEB will be gone....it is a measly 1.45AAV...There is really nothing to do with that money this year and then next year we have enough coming off the books to where it is not really effecting too much. I feel like we have been through this.[/QUOTE]

    this. I dont know why the topic of our depth guys being worse than last year is coming up. Last year our depth guys were white, laughton, gagner. Now we have tk, filppula, lindblom coming. 100% better. We are just trying to point fingers right now. Our depth is actualy really good now. We are going to have a ton of options going into next year. TK, Lindblom, Simmonds, Raffl, Schenn can all move around the top 9. We now have two centers to fill the middle six and make them both lethal lines. Our biggest problem offensively these last two years was our bottom six and 3rd line center which hexy has filled for next year. Im excited for next year and the year after.

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    3: Depth guys were a joke last year lol they still are. We got away with it because of plays from Ghost and a mostly healthy G and good goaltending.

    Last point in RE: to PEB......it is a 2 year deal...in 2 years...PEB will be gone....it is a measly 1.45AAV...There is really nothing to do with that money this year and then next year we have enough coming off the books to where it is not really effecting too much. I feel like we have been through this.
    this. I dont know why the topic of our depth guys being worse than last year is coming up. Last year our depth guys were white, laughton, gagner. Now we have tk, filppula, lindblom coming. 100% better. We are just trying to point fingers right now. Our depth is actualy really good now. We are going to have a ton of options going into next year. TK, Lindblom, Simmonds, Raffl, Schenn can all move around the top 9. We now have two centers to fill the middle six and make them both lethal lines. Our biggest problem offensively these last two years was our bottom six and 3rd line center which hexy has filled for next year. Im excited for next year and the year after.[/QUOTE]

    I think with the addition of Flip, our depth got better, but I was thinking of the guys like Read, VV, PEB, and Lub...either way, last year they were a joke with white and Gagner (who was not good until this year lol of course...but he has gotten a larger role and opportunity..)...

  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    Disaster signings? The gordon signing is not a disaster. The guy is gone next year. The weise signing was just 2 years too long. We will see if its a disaster when it comes to the last two years. We have cap space and have the most of the guys locked up (couts, simmer, schenn, g, v). Ghost is the only guy we need to sign to a long term deal next.

    If Vegas can take Read, Weise, or Neuvy that would be awesome. If they take read then we get a 4th line spot for leier. If not then read stays on the 4th line and thats not such a bad thing seeing as he can be on the pk and drives possession. If weise is gone then we get a future spot down the road for someone in the system to come up in 2 years. If neuvy is gone then we can have stolarz back up mason.

    And how in the hell would we be in a better place with Brett connolly and sam gagner? Gagner sucks and with this system he would've been a liability. He will 100% regress next year. Connolly isn't that great either and he is doing ok with the caps who are doing great. Basically if we had both of them instead of weise (gordon isn't on the main team), we wouldn't have room for weal, who is getting a good opportunity, or cousins.
    Yes, Gordon is gone next year. But I'd much, much, much rather have Sam Gagner on the same contract. One has talent; the other doesn't. Plain and simple.

    Gagner is going to regress? What? I don't know why everyone is so shocked and shaken when Gagner produces at his career average. Over his NHL career (that's 11,000+ minutes), Gagner produces at a rate of (roughly) 2.08 points/60 (or .58 PPG). In Philadelphia, he didn't. But lets not lose sight of the fact that for not one, for not two, but for three other NHL teams, he produced at approximately that rate.

    At some point, we need to look in the mirror. The guy has succeeded (literally) everywhere else in the NHL, except for Dave Hakstol's Philadelphia Flyers. Coincidence?

    Also, for the "Gagner sucks" logic, if that's true, how is he a career .58 PPG player? This isn't a flash in the pan, one-season thing. This is over more than 11,000 minutes played at the NHL level. That is statistically significant.

    Connolly signed for just under $1M on a 1-year deal. Weise got $2.4M on a 4 year deal. They play the same role, again with Connolly having more talent. One is good value (that's Connolly); the other is not (that's Weise).

    Also, you are whining about VV and PEB -- well, give Hakstol a viable & legitimate alternative to playing them. He's benching Luybimov because he thinks VV produces at a similar rate, but is less of a liability. It's an unsophisticated and (relatively) idiotic notion, but that's the coach we have to deal with. The same goes (in a sense) for Cousins vs. PEB.

    Now, picture this team with Gagner and Connolly. How the hell is Hakstol going to bench Gagner if he's churning out 50+ points over a full season? How is he going to bench Connolly, who very well could end up as a 20-goal scorer playing (literally) 10 minutes a game for WSH. Connolly has the skating ability, brains and talent to do everything that Weise/VV does, only better. Gagner can do everything that PEB can do, plus actually score points.

    These are the under-the-radar signings that make teams better. Stop looking for "sexy" signings or "big-name" trades. They don't work. Look for hidden value. Value signings and value drafting are the keys to success in today's NHL. Plain and simple.

  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post

    Also, you are whining about VV and PEB -- well, give Hakstol a viable & legitimate alternative to playing them. He's benching Luybimov because he thinks VV produces at a similar rate, but is less of a liability. It's an unsophisticated and (relatively) idiotic notion, but that's the coach we have to deal with. The same goes (in a sense) for Cousins vs. PEB.

    Now, picture this team with Gagner and Connolly. How the hell is Hakstol going to bench Gagner if he's churning out 50+ points over a full season? How is he going to bench Connolly, who very well could end up as a 20-goal scorer playing (literally) 10 minutes a game for WSH. Connolly has the skating ability, brains and talent to do everything that Weise/VV does, only better. Gagner can do everything that PEB can do, plus actually score points.

    These are the under-the-radar signings that make teams better. Stop looking for "sexy" signings or "big-name" trades. They don't work. Look for hidden value. Value signings and value drafting are the keys to success in today's NHL. Plain and simple.
    Yes gagner is most likely going to score 50 but he is on the 2nd line right now (really the first as he is centering atkinson and saad, and was playing with jenner/foligno earlier). He was on the top pp for a while for cbj and they play a way more aggressive system than us. He never would have had the opportunity he is having and his value/production, I believe, will diminish with the increased roles of their younger players (du bois coming next year). More agree to disagree type thing i guess. Anyway, he just wasn't a player that could fill a role like Flip can here. He isn't a good two way player and thats something this team needed down the middle. I doubt he could have scored 50 here so mulling about it is kind of pointless. Connolly doesn't really produce much anyway and we can fill his role with weise, cousins, leier, weal. I agree that we need those hidden value signings but these aren't them. Im fine with PEB, never really whined about him, especially if he can improve his FO%. those player would not have made this team dramatically better.

  7. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Yes, Gordon is gone next year. But I'd much, much, much rather have Sam Gagner on the same contract. One has talent; the other doesn't. Plain and simple.

    Gagner is going to regress? What? I don't know why everyone is so shocked and shaken when Gagner produces at his career average. Over his NHL career (that's 11,000+ minutes), Gagner produces at a rate of (roughly) 2.08 points/60 (or .58 PPG). In Philadelphia, he didn't. But lets not lose sight of the fact that for not one, for not two, but for three other NHL teams, he produced at approximately that rate.

    At some point, we need to look in the mirror. The guy has succeeded (literally) everywhere else in the NHL, except for Dave Hakstol's Philadelphia Flyers. Coincidence?

    Also, for the "Gagner sucks" logic, if that's true, how is he a career .58 PPG player? This isn't a flash in the pan, one-season thing. This is over more than 11,000 minutes played at the NHL level. That is statistically significant.

    Connolly signed for just under $1M on a 1-year deal. Weise got $2.4M on a 4 year deal. They play the same role, again with Connolly having more talent. One is good value (that's Connolly); the other is not (that's Weise).

    Also, you are whining about VV and PEB -- well, give Hakstol a viable & legitimate alternative to playing them. He's benching Luybimov because he thinks VV produces at a similar rate, but is less of a liability. It's an unsophisticated and (relatively) idiotic notion, but that's the coach we have to deal with. The same goes (in a sense) for Cousins vs. PEB.

    Now, picture this team with Gagner and Connolly. How the hell is Hakstol going to bench Gagner if he's churning out 50+ points over a full season? How is he going to bench Connolly, who very well could end up as a 20-goal scorer playing (literally) 10 minutes a game for WSH. Connolly has the skating ability, brains and talent to do everything that Weise/VV does, only better. Gagner can do everything that PEB can do, plus actually score points.

    These are the under-the-radar signings that make teams better. Stop looking for "sexy" signings or "big-name" trades. They don't work. Look for hidden value. Value signings and value drafting are the keys to success in today's NHL. Plain and simple.
    Tough to disagree with what your saying, except I don't think the keys to success are signings like Gagner and Connolly; Gagner has played on that many teams because he is a defensive liability. Columbus has a great defense, so Gagner doesn't stick out as much in the dzone, he can take chances and produce. We will have that, I hope, next year.

    The key is drafting and college signings ... and supplementing with production from vets that lead the team from a supporting role, Hossa, carter, gaborik, Kessel, hornqvist, anisimov ... cost controlled, and set/known cost options of all sorts are what matter the most important thing

  8. #578
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    also re: gagner
    remember that he was a salary dump three times in 12 months when we got him. EDM dumped him on TB; TB dumped him on AZ; AZ dumped him on us. like fillpula, he was acquired to even out salary, not to be a core contributor.

    it's also worth highlighting again that his worst season, by far, was with us.
    3: Depth guys were a joke last year lol they still are.
    that's true enough, but last year's bottom 6 was different. they had no talent, but they played hard and fast and they wore other teams down.

    if you look for it, the stats back it up. hextall replaced white/gagner/laughton (53 points) with weise/gordon/lyubimov (14 points). raffl, bellemare and read went from 71 points to 34.
    Now, picture this team with Gagner and Connolly. How the hell is Hakstol going to bench Gagner if he's churning out 50+ points over a full season
    hakstol benched ganger fairly often last year. he also benched ghost and konecny this year.

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    also re: gagner
    remember that he was a salary dump three times in 12 months when we got him. EDM dumped him on TB; TB dumped him on AZ; AZ dumped him on us. like fillpula, he was acquired to even out salary, not to be a core contributor.

    it's also worth highlighting again that his worst season, by far, was with us.
    that's true enough, but last year's bottom 6 was different. they had no talent, but they played hard and fast and they wore other teams down.

    if you look for it, the stats back it up. hextall replaced white/gagner/laughton (53 points) with weise/gordon/lyubimov (14 points). raffl, bellemare and read went from 71 points to 34.
    hakstol benched ganger fairly often last year. he also benched ghost and konecny this year.
    In fairness to Gagner, he was overpaid on his last contract. But I'm not going to blame the player for taking the money he was offered... hell, I don't blame AMac for taking TBD $30M we offered him. I blame Homer for offering it. And we all know that I loathe AMac.

    I agree with you that the problem has been far less production from the bottom-6....you can't take away 75 points from a bottom-6 and expect everything to be groovy.

    That's one of the major reasons why I want to increase the talent level of those guys. I don't care that Gagner isn't the world's greatest defensive player -- he creates offense. He scores.

    Connolly barely plays. That's true. 10 minutes per game as a matter of fact. But he's probably going to score 20 goals this year for WSH, playing alongside offensive juggernauts line Tom Wilson. Why? Because he's got a plus shot, he can skate like the wind and he's big enough to be a force. Also, he plays very good defense. All that for the same price as Boyd Gordon.

    Want another example? Michael Grabner. Under the radar signing by NYR. He's fast, a dynamo on ST and has a great shot. This year, he's going to crack 30 goals. Dollar for dollar, one of the best value signings of the past few years.

    Or Thomas Vanek. For the same money that got us Dale Weise, we could've had a guy that can be a legitimate top line LW.

    But smarter signings in the bottom-6 probably increase scoring by 50-80 points. Figure 2.2 points per goal -- that's (at least) 23-36 more goals scored, which probably translates into 5-7 more wins (assuming a relatively even distribution of goals across games). With 10-14 more points, we're solidly in the playoff race, potentially challenging for the #5-#6 seed.

  10. #580
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    Grabner was someone I really wanted and would've helped this team a lot, especially on the bottom 6/pk. Our bottom 6 was something I hated earlier in the year. Raffl had a down year and injuries added to that toward the end. Our bottom 6 looks better now but that doesn't it would've helped if we had it a while ago to get those 10-14 points you talked about. Nothing we can do about the past signings or lack thereof now. Our bottom 6 should not be as much of an issue next year and that should really help G and Voracek.

    I do want to see Giroux and Voracek back together though, now that G is hot he can help Voracek going again..?

    Weal-G-Voracek
    TK-Flip-Simmonds
    Schenn-Couts-Weise

  11. #581
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    Going into next season we go this roster pretty much...

    TK-Giroux-Simmonds
    Schenn-Flip-Voracek
    Lindblom-Couts-Raffl/weal
    raffl/Weal-PEB-Weise/Read

    If weal isn't in the plans going forward, then Hexy can try signing someone so that raffl can be on the 4th line to make us pretty darn deep throughout. Also, I hate the freaking wild card. Since the rangers will most likely end up with the 1st wildcard, if they have more points than montreal, does montreal still get home ice since they won their division? They are 5th in the league and cant have home ice, thats BS

  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    Going into next season we go this roster pretty much...

    TK-Giroux-Simmonds
    Schenn-Flip-Voracek
    Lindblom-Couts-Raffl/weal
    raffl/Weal-PEB-Weise/Read

    If weal isn't in the plans going forward, then Hexy can try signing someone so that raffl can be on the 4th line to make us pretty darn deep throughout. Also, I hate the freaking wild card. Since the rangers will most likely end up with the 1st wildcard, if they have more points than montreal, does montreal still get home ice since they won their division? They are 5th in the league and cant have home ice, thats BS
    That is correct. Our division is stacked this year.

  13. #583
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    Apparently if you hit the scoreboard from your defensive end, it isn't a penalty. Thanks Andrew Macdonald for being so horrible that I have new hockey trivia

  14. #584
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    We are getting so lucky this game. The 2nd period used to be our strength, now it is a disaster.

  15. #585
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    I believe going into this game, we had a 5% chance to make the playoffs. Mason not making that save I think is the nail in the coffin

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