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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I don't understand the assumption these guys will be Yankees. I'm not saying Machado or Arenado will be Mets, either, because Sandy wouldn't give out that type of contract in all likelihood but the Yankees have a ton of young positional player talent. They need pitching which is something their system doesn't have a lot of.

    I'm sure those guys will end up on a big market team but I don't see them automatically being in pinstripes.
    This. Not only are the Yankees maybe reigning in the spending a bit, but they'll have other needs when the time comes.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I don't understand the assumption these guys will be Yankees. I'm not saying Machado or Arenado will be Mets, either, because Sandy wouldn't give out that type of contract in all likelihood but the Yankees have a ton of young positional player talent. They need pitching which is something their system doesn't have a lot of.

    I'm sure those guys will end up on a big market team but I don't see them automatically being in pinstripes.
    Not automatically, but they way their payroll seems to be set up going into those years, they might be in the best position of any big market team.

    With that said, don't ever count out the Sox or Dodgers.


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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    This. Not only are the Yankees maybe reigning in the spending a bit, but they'll have other needs when the time comes.
    Perhaps, but they could go the Cubs route and find pitchers through trades.

    Again while they are loaded with youth at positions, it does not mean that they will just stay with them. Cashman is not afraid to trade a top prospect of theirs like he did Montero for Pineda. I know that Yanks also have a kid at third base they like quite a bit, but you sign Machado and that kid is a big time trade chip.


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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    No they're not.

    They're not just going to suddenly increase their payroll by 50 million. They'll pay Thor, but I have a feeling Harvey and deGrom won't be here when they eligible for FA.
    I think you're agreeing with me, but it's not clear.

    I think Harvey is a goner, and with the emergence of Thor, deGrom, Matz, etc, I see no reason to even consider paying him what he's going to want.

    I think deGrom will be here long-term as well as Thor. He wants to be here, and I could see him giving a hometown discount to the Mets without damaging himself. Kind of like what Wright did.

    The Mets have about $60+M coming off the books at the end of this season, and most of those players are going to be replaced with cheap, home grown talent. There will be money for our pitchers, and other players needed to fill holes.

    There is also the possibility that Wright retires within the next 2 years, or the team collects insurance if he can't play.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I don't see why the Mets would bother extended deGrom. He's not going to be the same power pitcher at 32 years old and they'll just be paying for regression, further injury, and age. Might as well milk these guys for a bit longer, keep 1 or 2 of them, and trade the rest for young prospects so they can start the cycle over.

    It's a business. You can't get too sentimentally attached to players because otherwise you get Albert Pujols or Robinson Cano (yes I know he is coming off a great season but he's not worth 240 million dollars) . Not to mention, arms are just way too volatile to overpay too many of them.
    Last year his velocity was down, and until his last 3 starts when he was injured, he showed the ability to pitch at a very high level without throwing 95-98. Because his record ended at 7-8 last year, a lot of people don't realize how good he was through mid August. On August 13, after 21 starts, he was 7-5 with a 2.29 ERA with 129 Ks and 29 BBs in 133 innings. He also gave up 2 or fewer runs in 14 of those 21 starts.

    Of all the Mets fab five (including Wheeler), deGrom is the one who has proven he doesn't need to throw 94+ to be a dominant starting pitcher.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    Last year his velocity was down, and until his last 3 starts when he was injured, he showed the ability to pitch at a very high level without throwing 95-98. Because his record ended at 7-8 last year, a lot of people don't realize how good he was through mid August. On August 13, after 21 starts, he was 7-5 with a 2.29 ERA with 129 Ks and 29 BBs in 133 innings. He also gave up 2 or fewer runs in 14 of those 21 starts.

    Of all the Mets fab five (including Wheeler), deGrom is the one who has proven he doesn't need to throw 94+ to be a dominant starting pitcher.
    I still wouldn't give deGrom the 5-6 year deal at 30 million dollars a season he would presumably be looking for. You'll get 2-3 years max of solid performance then depreciating results. It would be better if the Mets moved him with in the middle of the 2018 season and get a truckload back in return. Yes, I understand that will still be in their window of competing for a WS but they could get some really great major league ready prospects.
    Last edited by metswon69; 03-20-2017 at 05:52 PM.

  7. #97
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    8 years 30 million per for Machado.

    Make it happen Omah!


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I still wouldn't give deGrom the 5-6 year deal at 30 million dollars a season he would presumably be looking for. You'll get 2-3 years max of solid performance then depreciating results. It would be better if the Mets moved him with in the middle of the 2018 season and get a truckload back in return. Yes, I understand that will still be in their window of competing for a WS but they could get some really great major league ready prospects.
    If deGrom is a $30M a year pitcher, I think the Mets can have him for $22. Then again, how many 5-6 year $30M a year pitchers are there in MLB? Much like position players, contracts for pitchers will probably get shorter over the next few years.

    So far Kershaw is the only $30M pitcher who has lived up to his contract, and even he spends at least 2-4 weeks on the DL every year.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    8 years 30 million per for Machado.

    Make it happen Omah!
    And that's probably lowballing lol
    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumé

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    If deGrom is a $30M a year pitcher, I think the Mets can have him for $22. Then again, how many 5-6 year $30M a year pitchers are there in MLB? Much like position players, contracts for pitchers will probably get shorter over the next few years.

    So far Kershaw is the only $30M pitcher who has lived up to his contract, and even he spends at least 2-4 weeks on the DL every year.
    If the Mets approach him now perhaps they can get him at that number. Otherwise, they've got to hope he's not as dominant the last 1 or 2 years of his control so he comes off those potential demands. That becomes counterproductive though because you want him to continue pitching at an elite level so he can help the team win a WS. If he continues to be this good, he's going to get that type of money. The only hiccup will be his age at the time he enters FA but I wouldn't expect him to take a discount at that time.

    I know no one wants to see him leave but the Cardinals have been successful for all this time because they knew when a guy outlived his potential salary and either traded him or let him walk. It's something the Mets should do as well, especially if the potential return for deGrom could be huge.
    Last edited by metswon69; 03-22-2017 at 09:50 PM.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    If the Mets approach him now perhaps they can get him at that number. Otherwise, they've got to hope he's not as dominant the last 1 or 2 of his control so he comes off those potential demands. That becomes counterproductive though because you want him to continue pitching at an elite level so he can help the team win a WS. If he continues to be this good, he's going to get that type of money. The only hiccup will be his age at the time he enters FA but I wouldn't expect him to take a discount at that time.

    I know no one wants to see him leave but the Cardinals have been successful for all this time because they knew when a guy outlived his potential salary and either traded him or let him walk. It's something the Mets should do as well, especially if the potential return for deGrom could be huge.
    The more I think about deGrom, I think he can easily be kept long term. He's going to be 32 when he's eligible for FA, and that puts him at a huge disadvantage.

    I think they could get him for 6/105 if they sign him after the season, because we'd be guaranteeing he'd be a rich man even if he gets hurt. The longer they wait, the more he'll cost. Buy out his last 3 years of arbitration, and the first 3 years of FA, and we have this bulldog until he's 35. No one is going to pay him $30M over 6 years when he's going to be almost 33 going into the first year of his contract.

    Structure the deal something like this:
    2018 - $10M
    2019 - $15M
    2020 - $20M
    2021 - $25M
    2022 - $20M
    2023 - $15M

    Front loading the deal is smart because they've got over $60M coming off the books after this year. Maybe pay deGrom up front, and Thor on the back end of deGrom's deal. That way you can afford both for at least the next 7+ years. By front loading deGrom, they'd also be able to pay everyone else.

  12. #102
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    Zack Greinke got 6 years and 206 million dollars at age 32. That's 34 million dollars a season. If deGrom keeps on this pace, no reason to believe he couldn't command 28-30 million dollars a year.

    If the Mets go to him now with that deal, perhaps. The longer they wait like you mentioned the less and less likely he takes any deal and just goes to FA.

    I honestly don't expect the Mets to re-sign him. Too much injury risk and paying pitchers is different than paying position players. That's why I would advocate for them eventually trading him.
    Last edited by metswon69; 03-22-2017 at 11:35 PM.

  13. #103
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    I would look to trade him with a year left of control.

    And I hope he is dominant leading up to that year.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    8 years 30 million per for Machado.

    Make it happen Omah!
    At the risk of sounding like the old timer that I am, there is simply no joy in winning a championship if your team has to pay out that kind of money to create a championship team. I guess I'm stepping off the elevator.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    At the risk of sounding like the old timer that I am, there is simply no joy in winning a championship if your team has to pay out that kind of money to create a championship team. I guess I'm stepping off the elevator.
    Thank God it's not an escalator, or someone might get hurt.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

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